i just a the www.nightrider web sight and was reading about a do it yourself " how to richen a NB02 sensor" im guessing this mod. will get the bike to run a little richer making it run cooler ... it says that you can buy what is needed at a local radio shack.. has anyone tryed this mod? does it help the engine run cooler, also would it help the decel. popping by riching the fuel injection system.. i have a 06dyna sg with v&h staggerdshort shots and a se a/c also a v&h fuelpac.. thanks for any help or advice on this subject..

 

I don't know what the FuelPak does with the O2 sensors. If they're still on-line with the ECM it must certainly be doing all it can to shut down the injectors in an effort to achieve the programmed AFR. Maybe the minimum duty cycle is a known value and the FuelPak uses that to advantage? Does the FP "know" when the ECM is acting in closed-loop mode or not?

While the cheap "fix" for modifying what the ECM thinks the O2 sensors are reporting is a sound electrical method I don't think it would help much, if any, while you're using a piggyback unit like the FP. It certainly would be a waste of time if whatever one is using keeps the ECM in open-loop mode at all times.

The "fix" is a non-SERT method of doing what the SERT does when the bias is adjusted and would no doubt be beneficial if using the non-SERT'd ECM for control of the fuel mixture.

The range is very limited in either case. At most it might approach a 4% increase in fuel being delivered. Trouble would certainly ensue if biasing the sensor output with either method resulted in a mixture out of the linear reporting range of the sensor(s).

Again, if you're using an aftermarket electronic fuel-metering device there should be no need to mess with splicing stuff into your harness unless that device called for it. This "fix", in my opinion, would be ideal for someone who's using the otherwise stock motor setup and wants to make things a little more reasonable for cheap.

 

As I recall that device only richens the mixture by a few tenths of a percent- hardly worth splicing into one's wiring harness.

The Fuel Pak is already richening your mixture, so you'll realize no benefit from such an add-on anyway.
I spoke with V&H Tech Support on the phone and what they said about the Fuel Pak is that at idle the stock ECM is controlling the air-fuel ratio via the O2 sensors, so the Fuel Pak does nothing to alleviate the lean condition at idle. The instant the throttle is moved the Fuel Pak takes control, the signals from the stock O2 sensors are intercepted, and the Fuel Pak handles fuel delivery from that point on.

If you're looking for something to really help cool your engine down you'll have to look into an oil cooler. Just richening up the mixture by itself will help only slightly, but when combined with an oil cooler and a good synthetic oil you'll feel a difference. With this combination most people are seeing a drop in oil temp of 25-35 degrees.
When all is said & done though, you still have a huge air-cooled gas-fired heater 3" below your nads. Heat will always be a factor...

As for the popping on decel- make sure your exhaust has no leaks anywhere- especially at the headpipes and where the mufflers slip on. This will cause decel popping. If you have no leaks give V&H tech support a call & tell them what's happening. They'll give you some different parameters to enter into the computer to get rid of the popping...

 

If by slightly you mean 15 degrees, yep, that's what I got.

 

You're doing pretty good then.
The biggest drop in oil temp I've seen is 8 degrees from just richening the mixture. (That was on a friend's bike with a PCIII.)
Most everyone else I've seen has gotten about 5 or 6 degrees of reduction.

 

well i have tryed to tighten the pipes header bolts and i have call a few times to talk with adam at v&h tech.about my poping on decel. problem and every set of new numbers he gives me dont help .. the heat the bike produces dont bother me that much but i just wanted to maybe try to get it to cool down with any mods that would help to prolong the life of the engine. i know the bikes are set really too lean right out of the shoot so i thought the NB02 sensor mod. would help.. im thinking now i might not cut into the wiring... thanks for the replys and advice..

 

Hey, thanks lost1 about the input about the FP taking over the fuel mixture when you open the throttle. My plugs were as white as my gas tank when I bought her. I went with the K/N a/c and V&H slipons and the fuelpak. The plugs did get just a bit darker; I'm used to seeing them even more dark. Still a bit too white for my liking.....but, as you said, the mixture does richen up when I'm underway. I was at my stealership yest, they have a dyno there. The guy said that they install the PC111 on everyones bike ($300) bucks, then dial everything in on the dyno. I thought, man, should've gone PC111 instead of the fuelpak. Guess I'll sell it on Ebay and start saving some $$.
After I read your input, I rechanged my mind. The bike runs fine with the FP....very little popping. on decel.

 

I believe the initial subject was about the wide band o2 conversion.

Go to the link and study the facts. I am by no means an expert on engine tuning. But, I have some efi and fuel air ratio tuning backround.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd2007HD_heat_00.htm

The EPA put the hit on Harley..... Period.

Mypick is with NightRider, and the WBO2. It's a cut and dried straightforward fix to corporate Greeny hoodlums.... Or was that Greedy Hoodlums.

Facts are facts. Do your self a favor and read the whole NBO2 versus WBO2 fact sheet.
These Brothers from NightRider, are Harley Performance Purists, with the facts.

While the WBO2 only addresses the (lean) 2007 Harley/Epa standards front face. It also does a great deal to chill a thirsty Hog where it see's most of it's life 1000-4000 r.p.m.

Out of the box all the EFI 2007 models in stop and go traffic are gonna hurt for a better fuel mixture the minute they crank up.

 

I for one, and I know many others, would never consider running a WBO2 full time closed loop, especially at wide open throttle, on an expensiveengine. WBO2s are more prown to failure then NBO2s and I do not want this to happen when it is in complete control of my A/F ratio when at WOT. One exception to this is, having set up many automotive WBO2 full time closed loop systems, if the engine first was set up with a good dyno tune, then we would use the WB full time but set its control limits to only a few percent, usually more percent going rich then lean. Thus the WBO2 is not working much, however, it takes a fairly sophisticated ECM for such tuner control. This way the engine is getting good A/F correction for atmospheric changes but prevents the tune from going off the deep end destroying an expensive engineifcertain things shouldgo wrong.

 

(Quote) I for one, and I know many others, would never consider running a WBO2 full time closed loop, especially at wide open throttle, on an expensiveengine

I'm Glad I'm speaking with the one who speaks to many others.

Not talking about full time WBO2. Nor would I suggest it either. But, during closed loop where the majority of these bikes see there service. The open loop (full throtlle blasts) will need to be tuned for any performance upgrades that are added. This is where a SERT, Power Commander, Techlusion Etc. come in handy

The majority of oxygen sensors, WB or NB normallyfail to a set of rich tables on the ECU. This would put the A/F ratio at 12:1 by default on the (new Delphi) system on the 2007 models.
I have yet to see one fail to the lean side.
As far as I have researched, most WBO2 sensor failures are from excessive heat to the generator side of the sensor. Whether this is going to be an issue with those who do, or have done the conversion is still not known. This conversion is still fairly new from what I've seen.
Aside from any heat issues, the WBO2 so far has the advantage over the O2 sensor eliminator based black boxes for closed loop accuracy.Why are thebetter, and more high dollar after market tuner systems WBO2 based.
Could be, because they are more accurate?