Well here it is and it's already winter...

I am going to go ahead and do the engine rebuild but before I get started I have some questions for y'all

First of all I’m fairly mechanically inclined but I’m no genius... I am asking that if I go through this that y'all do it with me... This will be a real testament to this forum and its effectiveness. In return I'll take every picture known to man and I'll post it and I'll document every step that I take.

So before I start here are my questions:

1. Should I do the whole thing or just the top end?

Here is why I ask:

I am blowing smoke out of my rear pipe badly. Well not crazy smoke but its getting worse all the time. Other than that its fine. So, I’m of the opinion that if it aint broke then don’t fix it. Thus I'm inclined to just work on the upper half of the motor. I'd imagine that once I get the cylinders off I'll have a good idea as to if I need to do the bottom half as well. So I'll probably play it by ear. What are your thoughts here?

2. Do I need a bike jack or anything like that?

I don’t have one and I’m really trying to keep the costs down. I am budgeting about $1000.00 for this and I know that I can pay some one to do it for me but I figure that I can do it and save $$ plus I'll spend $$ on tools that I'll still have once the job is over.

3. Tools - I don’t have many... What will I need?

4. I am a Christian man and I am asking for much prayer over this winter... hoping that the bike still runs when I’m done...

5. Power improvements, while I'm in there are there any things that I can do to get more power out of it? Its got decent power now but I figure that while I’m in there I can tweak it a little... What are your thoughts?

6. Manual, where can I locate a manual for a 77 Ironhead?

That is about it. As soon as I get advice back I'll be opening her up and digging in.

Just as a reminder It’s a 77 Ironhead bobber style, motor is all original and I have done the following to get her running.

Rebuilt carb – a buddy of mine did this for me.
Replaced starter bendix
Replaced solenoid boot
Replaced the magnets in the generator
Replaced the battery – Harley Gel-Core
Rebuilt / replaced front break caliper
Added tail light

When I got her she had the following:

Rigged Frame
Newer Fork (Early 80’s ? Dana GlideI think)
Aftermarket Drag Pipesand Oil Tank hat holds the battery


This is my first bike and I really love it. I got it last summer and I used it as a daily driver for the last part of the summer and it was perfect. Now its blowing smoke out of the rear cylinder and its time to get her taken care of.

As always any help here is greatly appreciated.

Pat




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Cool bike.

1. Just plan on doing the top end. If you get that far and the rods have up/down play, then it's time to do the whole thing.

2. NO, you don't need a stand. I did a top end job on mine on the back patio with the bike resting on the sidestand.

3.In addition to the standard open/closed end wrenches, you'll need a torque wrench and a piston ring compressor (one made for old air-cooled VW'swill work and is cheap).

4. I'll say one for you now, but the job's not that hard.

5. Other than a quality milti-angle valve job, there's not much else I'd do on a top-end job on amostly stock motor.I'd stay away from high compression pistons, too. You just about need dual-plugged heads to make that work with the crummy gas available today. As they say, horspower costs money - how much can you spend? The easiest hp mods are intake and exhaust tweeks (pipes, air cleaner, carb, etc.). Anything else and you're really digging into the bank account because of the snowball effect....change one thing and you need to do another to get the most out of the first change. The more you hop it up, the less dependable it will be, too. Anyway, just my opinions.

6. EBay is a good place to look, and I think J&P Cycles sells them. You may even get one from your local HD dealer. Buy a real HD factory manual.

Good luck with it!

 

Good info... Thanks man!

Here is another pic...

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I like it! Oh, and I forgot - youmay need some 12-point sockets to fit the head bolts. The rear head is a little hard to get on and off with the motor in the frame - you have to leave the rocker box and head bolted together and remove them as one piece. Also, it may be hard to get to some of the rear head bolts with the torque wrench when putting it back together. Mine is an '83, so some of my tips may not be the same for a '77.

Keep us posted...

 

A couple other things that would help performance a little are a high flow petcock for the fuel tank like a Pingel, and a spark plug index kit.

 

Pat....
Gotta throw my 2 cents in here. I would also go in with the intention of rebuilding the top end only, and leave the bottom end alone....with some reservations. This suggestion will apply as long as the bottom end does not have a lot of miles on it.
A lot of miles will be 75,000 or more. If you have that kind of milage on it, then I suggust you do rebuild the lower end along with the top end.
Back to those reservations I spoke of:
Even if you decide not to rebuild the lower end I would still go into the timing cover
and remove the 4 cams and idle gear and generator. Leave the oil pump in place as the removal requires the engine be out of the frame (that is true for a 1974 and earlier, and may apply to a 1977 as well).
Leave the pinion gear and oil pump drive gear attached to the crank shaft. Removal of these will not aid you at all.
On each of the cams there are a number of different thickness spacers. These shim up the individual cams inside the timing cover. Keep each of the spacer washers with the proper cam and try not to mix them up. This will just make things easier for you when you put it back together.
I recommend that you check and correct (if necessary) the end play in each cam. This is done by adding or removing the .005 and .007 inch thick washers until the cam is within the limits of end play.
Then all of the cams get retimed when you are ready to put on the timing cover for a final time. Good exercise for you to go through. After you do this you will have a very knowing idea of what goes on within the cover.
For the top end:
I will assume you will need a rebore and pistons. Have the cylinders measured for wear and rebore the cylinders to the minimum required to clean it up.
Then buy the new proper over sized pistons and rings.
Go to your rebore shop and take the pistons with you. Each piston will measure different, and the shop should rebore each cylinder to fit a particular piston and then mark the pistons front & rear.
For the heads:
This is a great time to have hard valve seats installed in each head. With today's no lead in the gasoline, there is a good reason to put in hard seats.
Have new bronze valve guides installed.
Get new valves, progressive springs and new valve spring keepers.
As mentioned by another member, the rear head and rocker box come off together and go back the same way because of the frame member overhead.

I would forget about doing any modifications to increase your horse power. There is nothing out there that you can bolt in and get your moneys worth out of the mod. Something that will greatly increase the horse power is going to cost a fortune and compromise the reliability of the machine. Stroking the engine is the best example of what I'm talking about here. Just do a nice normal rebuild and you will be happy with the results.

But......Before you even begin taking the bike apart, get your self a FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL. You will need this to guide you through the process. The engines are simple as a tractor, but there are certain things that are hard to determine without the help of that manual. So just look for one on Ebay, or try http://cyclemanuals.com/HD.
Another place to get a factory manual is J&P. They have them for $58. The manual will tell you exactly what to do, to check, and how to fix it.
And again, any question you are going to have can be answered by someone here on the forum.......pg

 

You've received great advice, and I have little to add to what Pinion and the others have said other than to re-emphasize their comments about the bottom end. Pull the barrels off and check the rods for play. There should be no up and down movement. If there's not, leave the bottom end alone; If there is, you have another problem--there's not much chance of staying within your budget.

 

I had a comment to make regarding the need of a stand also. A stand is not needed, but I think you will benefit by making one up. This will hold the bike upright during your rebuild project. It will also keep either the front or rear wheel off the ground.
Later on after the rebuild you will still have the stand to assist you when:
1) You are washing the bike.
2) Changing a tire.
3) Draining your oil.
4) Installing a chain.......I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
I made one for my Dyna and one for my Sporty. Both are made out of pipe nipples and threaded elbows, then welded together so the fittings do not turn.
I then go to the local fire station and the firemen give me some surplus fire hose to cover the stand. This heavy canvas keeps the paint from getting scratched.
I included a pic of the Dyna stand. The Sporty is the same except just a little taller......pg


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Yep, stands are nice. Not a "have-to" item, but they're handy for doing all sorts of work on the bike, especially wheel and suspension work. I bought one of those inexpensivemotorcycle jacks that you put under the frame and lift the whole bike up.

I'll also add that in addition to a factory shop manual, a factory parts manual is nice to have. Lots of info and exploded views, and if you need a part, YOU can look up the part number and not depend on a know-nothing parts person to get you the wrong part.

 

WOW... Lots of info....

Well I was at TCS today to get an argon tank for my new TIG welder and there was a motorcycle jack / stand for $42.00 I went ahead and picked it up. I figured that it would be worth it.

I've read and re-read all of the posts here and...

Lest see if I have this right.

[ul][*]Stick with the top end unless the rods have too much play, then do the whole motor.[*]No matter what get the damn manual... (Its being shipped today)[*]Pull the cams for the purpose of re-timing (Keeping shim washers with their respective cams)[*]Re-Bore the jugs and get new pistons and rings accordingly[*]Install Hard Valve Seats and New Bronze Valve Guides[*]New Valves, Progressive Springs amd New Spring Keepers[/ul]
Am I missing anything?

Questions:

[ol][*]Where will I be able to get all of this stuff?[*]What is a Spark Plug Index Kit?[*]I have just rebuilt the carb (5 months ago)Im guessing that I can just leave it alone, Am i right?[*]I have drag pipes on it now. The look pretty bad and need replacing. I like them for the look and the sound but I have heard that they steal power. What are your thoughts on a new exhaust? These need new seals and they dont have baffles. That being said, I really do like the look and sound of the drags but I like power too. Im refraining from doing anything internal (Unles I hear otherwise) simply cuz I dont wana screw up a perfectly good motor for a few more HPs. Meanwhile I still need to replace the pipes... Looking for real guidance here...[*]My wife is asking for me to take her on a ride... Is this bike ok to have a passanger? Remember that this is my first bike and I've only had it for about 6 months or so. I dont wana kill her or me for that matter...[*]Do I need to remve the tank when Im taking the top of the motor apart?[*]Is it a good idea to get the jugs sandblasted and powdercoated since I have them off?[*]What are the best gaskets to go with? Im a Felpro guy my self but I doubt that the make motorcycle gaskets...[*]Tools, I have a really basic ratchet and openended wrench set. What more will I need?[/ol]
Ok guys,

Next weekend is Muzzel loader season and that will be it formy huntingfor the rest of the year. After that its all about the Harley...

Thanks again guys and I have to say, Im kinda scared but really excited too... Thanks for everything...