I just bought a screamin eagle race tuner but have heard mixed review. Some say power commander is better and harley says race tuners can only be tuner at a dealership. any help?

 

I have the race tuner as well, and its been awsome.... yes more money than the powercommander!! Theres alot of yea and neys to both.

Did you get the SERT for exhaust upgrade or ??

Since you already forked over the cash for the SERT, Have it dyno tuned as well and your bike will run like a dream, not sure about the powercommander, sorry. I tuned my bike twice at the dealer, and it was done right, no second guessing, no issues,.......... I feel that if you do it right the first time, it will eliminate any frustration in the future..... And you can work with different downloads with the SERT if you have the right download maps......you needa laptop computer or if you have a desktop in the garage??My race tuner is not usb which sucks.Theres tons of help on this forum.

 

You have to define what "better" means. The two items are both fuel management gizmos, but they're not at all alike.

The SERT is just an interface that lets your computer (or the dealer's) communicate with your stock Engine Control Module. You can change the fuel map that the ECM uses when it's making decisions about how much fuel to send through the injectors. It also gives you access to the rev limiter and allows you to turn engine temp control on or off. Finally, you can choose to have your maps be closed loop (O2 sensors on) or open loop (O2 sensors off) and if they're on, you can fiddle with the constant that puts more or less fuel in under closed loop operation withing very small limits. It also has a cool "data gathering" app that can read the signals from your engine while it's operating. (They don't recommend riding wiht it attached, but I have to admit I've bungied a laptop to the bike and done it.)

Note that the SERT is just a way to talk to your ECM -- it's not hardware as such. There's a thing you plug into your ECM to allow your computer to communicate, but you remove that thing when you're done. There's nothing left on the bike.

The Power Commander is what's called a "pulse stretcher." It intercepts the signal the ECM is sending to the injectors and makes it longer (adds fuel) in accordance with its own map. (It cannot make the pulses shorter.) To work, it has to have you bypass the O2 sensors (otherwise the ECM would detect that extra fuel was being burned and cut back the injector pulse.) PC does not give you access to any of the other items controlled by the ECM.

I can't imagine an independent shop wouldn't know how to use a SERT. It's pretty simple. They and the HD dealerships both know how to use a Power Commander.

Most of the other fuel management products are similar in nature to the PC.

One exception to note is the ThunderMax. With the ThunderMax you completely replace your ECM and the software they provide has full access to the maps etc in there. With the AutoTune module, it adds wide-band O2 sensors that can run closed loop over a much wider range of mixtures than the stock narrow-band O2 sensors. Kinda pricey, but has a loyal following.

 

Splatter,
You were mostly correct. A couple of corrections & other issues to consider though:
[ul][*]The Power Commander does in fact allow access to the rev limiter. I don't recomend turning it off on either the PCIII or with a sert unless you are a bona fide...I don't mind riskying my motor..race nut.[*]The Power Commander also gives you access to how responsive your fuel input is to throttle body movements(or throttle response control).[*]The Power Commander is sold by many "stealerships", and many of them have a dynojet dynometer as well. Although I highly recommend www.fuelmottousa.com for better pricing and service than the stealer.[/ul]
As with their oil...Harley doesn't make many of their performance products. They also aren't (As many "stealerships" would have you believe) somehow subject to different laws of physics that make accessories with the Harley logo on it any better suited thanaftermarket accessories some others make for Harley. I'm not calling the race tuner bad. I will say the major differences between having a sert or having a power commander installed is the amount of control you have over doing things with your bike without having to throw more money at the "stealership"
-clutch-

 

ive known a few guys who had power commanders and actually took them off for a race tuner and picked up some hp and claimed they ran a bit better...i personally have a race tuner and wouldnt trade it for a commander anyday

 

LMAO! Now there goes a real stealer sheep. Partner I won't argue with you over somethin so ridiculous..instead I'll just point out that both the sert and the power commander use maps to regulate fuel duration, and mixture controls to the injectors. both are dyno-tuneable. To say someone "gained horsepower by using the sert" sounds like something straight from the mouth of a "stealership". Whatever floats your boat dude. I'm not knocking the sert, but I'm also a long time user of the power commander & I bet you'd be hard strapped to find anyone on here who hasn't been pleased with either one.
-clutch-

 

I don't have either on yet, but I like the idea of not having to have any extra hardware attached to my bike, so I like the SERT.

 

I've got the SERT...was done when I had HD install my V&H pipes along with the SE A/C kit. Problem?...eversince I picked up my bike she was runnin' extremely lean...to the point that I couldn't even chuck a high rev without getting a blue-flamed, backfire "POP". The first Dyno that HD ran after getting the pipes installed stated a max power of 77.10 & max torque of 86.69. I then told HD about the bike runnin' lean & they claim they spent 3 hours on the dyno with it?Second dyno reading...max power of 73.56 & max torque of 81.33 (numbers went down!) Well, I still get the "POP" & now have a little less power after HD fiddled around with it! They said that all the V&H pipes on the 96" engines are notorious for "POPPIN'" & that there's really nothin' that can be done to fully eliminate it???[sm=confused06.gif]...[sm=bs.gif]? Now if I had the CobraFI2000 instead of the SERT could this be tweeked better & possibly resolved or finer tuned? What'd you guys think?

 

You need to find a better Tech... He added more fuel thats why the numbers dropped...

 

Their web site says this about their new "Rev X-tender" feature:

"If you check the Extend Redline feature then your bike will hit the rev limiter at 6200rpm. A different RPM setting can not be entered. If you ever want to turn this feature off just uncheck this box. "

Not sure how they're doing it, but it doesn't sound like they're talking to the ECM. SERT gives you control over the rev limiter in 50 rpm increments from 4000 to 7500 rpm. If they were talking to the ECM, then I'd expect them to do the same. My first guess is that they're just blocking the rev limiter signal coming out of the ECM until 6200. It's kind of a modest compromise between the stock 5500 and lifting a valve.

The SERT lets you get at the primary tables of the ECM. These are:

Fuel-Air ratio (using rpm against manifold air pressure (map,) not just throttle position)
Warmup enrichment
Cranking fuel (indexed by air temp where PC is just on/off)
Idle RPM (again indexed by air temp)
Bias adjustment for closed loop operation (rmp/map)
Acceleration enrichment
Deceleration enleanment
Spark advance (separate tables for front and rear cylinders)
Volumetric Efficiency (separate tables for front and rear cylinders)

...and a few other things as well. The most important thing (to me) is that it's working with the stock engine control. This is stuff that's already on your bike. I don't want to sound like a SERT groupie -- but I don't believe an add-on can give you more range of adjustment than directly reprogramming the ECM.

The key to the whole operation, SERT, PC oranything elseis the person who's doing the reprogramming. If you have a tuner who doesn't know how to take advantage of the SERT, the result is going to be disappointing. Same thing for the Power Commander. You can spend a lot of money on either setup and if you have a dud running the dyno it's money wasted.