..one more post on OIL
#651
08-25-2014, 05:50 PM
Stellar HDF Member
In response, I also based my opinion on syn3 with my experience using it. I had my wife's Sporty and changed the break in oil at 250 miles using conventional oil. At 1k the oil level was full and the trans had always had a loud clunk during gear changes. We were getting ready to go on a 15k road trip so I had the 1k service done by the dealer and had them use syn3. On the first day of our road trip we went 526 miles. The next morning we went another 50 miles and stopped for fuel and after I checked the oil level The oil level was down just shy of a quart of oil, we were no where near a dealer and ended up putting regular 20-50 oil in her sporty, the transmission still clunky as before (the dealer said everything was fine and the noise from the trans was normal and they all do that) After returning from our trip, I had changed her oil due to mixing oils and ended up using Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 that I had purchased from Walley world and changed the oil in the engine and primary. The clunk from the transmission was gone and the engine never lost or used any oil after that. The transmission started getting clunky after 2500 miles, so once again I changed the primary/trans oil, this time using Amsoil MCV 20-50. The Clunking was once again silenced and stayed that way for over 3k miles. So I now use Mobil 1 in the Engine and Amsoil in the Primary/Trans, and never had a problem with clunking or oil usage since with over 12k on it.
As for the OP that think Harley ships their Motorcycles with Syn3 in it from the factory, they don't.
As for the OP that think Harley ships their Motorcycles with Syn3 in it from the factory, they don't.
All the CVO bikes come from the factory with Syn3 in all three holes.
#653
08-26-2014, 07:37 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Syn 3 is not a pure synthetic and comparing it to Mobil 1 is apples to oranges, because Mobil 1 is a pure synthetic.
The article I read was in the March '09 copy of the Thunder magazine. The name of the article was 'Motorhead Memo' by Kip Woodring.
" Lots of opinions......
A few highlights to consider."
from the article-
"Here are some representative temps at a steady speed of 65 in 90 degree still air-
cyl head-275
cyl base-230
cam cvr-210
primary-190
eng oil feed-190
At a steady 75 mph these temps will all be about 10* higher. At 95, results might vary, but the point is the higher velocities (especially in engines in a state of tune that allows them) result in higher temps. Logical enough when you think about it for a minute, but theres the 'other' extreme too. The one you might not have thought of so much that makes the bell curve so interesting.
At the end as you come to a stop, watch the cyl head temp shoot up to around 325 (or more) as the motor idles. Quite often it will continue to rise, even to temps you will never see when riding. An extended period of idling (10 minutes) could easily produce a measured 375* in the heads, and 400* at the spark plug-or more!"
Theres alot said about the kind of oil thats best for these extreme temps, temps where the oils can 'flash' (begin to vaporize [burn]). So flash point is critical imho. Flash points of syn oil is higher, and there are partial synthetics and pure sythetics with the pure syns have the highest flashpoint. The article says there are only two things keeping your motor cool, air and the oil.
Anyway, getting tired of typing....lol, so here are the pure syns listed-
Delvac-1
AMSOil
Redline
Mobil One
Motul 5100
Syn3-HD is not a pure synthetic and is stingy giving out info about their oil. Hmmm, wonder why?
Here are some oils and their listed flashpoints-
AMSOil Synthetic Motorcycle 20w-50 : 449*
Havoline Formula 3 : 465*
Pennzoil GT Performance : 460*
Castrol GPS (20W-50) : 414*
Mobil 1 V-Twin (20w-50) : 518*
Redline Motorcycle oil (20w-60) : 490*
Bardahl American Classic (20w-50) : 500*
Most conventional major brand 20w-50 oils have a flashpoint between 425*-440*. Some breakdown and oxidation occurs at lower temps so a few manufacturers also quote a max. continuous service temp of, say, 275*-325*, like Syn3's rating of 300*."
"I got this from the article-"Motohead Memo" by Kip Woodring in the March issue of Thunderpress mag."
The article seems to cut through most of the scientific data bs and puts it in more layman terms. For me, the oil lubricating and cooling is the most critical issue. I just ride and try to maintain my bike as best I can based on general riding, and it would seem lubrication and cooling are the main issue.
I just read some ratings on full synthetic motor oils made by an independent and they listed Amsoil #1 and Mobil 1 #3.
But facts be damned, there will always be someone who comes in and says this is all bs. I'm out of this thread. You cannot discuss politics, religion, or it seems oils without that happening, especially around here...lol.
Have fun and ride safe everyone!
The article I read was in the March '09 copy of the Thunder magazine. The name of the article was 'Motorhead Memo' by Kip Woodring.
" Lots of opinions......
A few highlights to consider."
from the article-
"Here are some representative temps at a steady speed of 65 in 90 degree still air-
cyl head-275
cyl base-230
cam cvr-210
primary-190
eng oil feed-190
At a steady 75 mph these temps will all be about 10* higher. At 95, results might vary, but the point is the higher velocities (especially in engines in a state of tune that allows them) result in higher temps. Logical enough when you think about it for a minute, but theres the 'other' extreme too. The one you might not have thought of so much that makes the bell curve so interesting.
At the end as you come to a stop, watch the cyl head temp shoot up to around 325 (or more) as the motor idles. Quite often it will continue to rise, even to temps you will never see when riding. An extended period of idling (10 minutes) could easily produce a measured 375* in the heads, and 400* at the spark plug-or more!"
Theres alot said about the kind of oil thats best for these extreme temps, temps where the oils can 'flash' (begin to vaporize [burn]). So flash point is critical imho. Flash points of syn oil is higher, and there are partial synthetics and pure sythetics with the pure syns have the highest flashpoint. The article says there are only two things keeping your motor cool, air and the oil.
Anyway, getting tired of typing....lol, so here are the pure syns listed-
Delvac-1
AMSOil
Redline
Mobil One
Motul 5100
Syn3-HD is not a pure synthetic and is stingy giving out info about their oil. Hmmm, wonder why?
Here are some oils and their listed flashpoints-
AMSOil Synthetic Motorcycle 20w-50 : 449*
Havoline Formula 3 : 465*
Pennzoil GT Performance : 460*
Castrol GPS (20W-50) : 414*
Mobil 1 V-Twin (20w-50) : 518*
Redline Motorcycle oil (20w-60) : 490*
Bardahl American Classic (20w-50) : 500*
Most conventional major brand 20w-50 oils have a flashpoint between 425*-440*. Some breakdown and oxidation occurs at lower temps so a few manufacturers also quote a max. continuous service temp of, say, 275*-325*, like Syn3's rating of 300*."
"I got this from the article-"Motohead Memo" by Kip Woodring in the March issue of Thunderpress mag."
The article seems to cut through most of the scientific data bs and puts it in more layman terms. For me, the oil lubricating and cooling is the most critical issue. I just ride and try to maintain my bike as best I can based on general riding, and it would seem lubrication and cooling are the main issue.
I just read some ratings on full synthetic motor oils made by an independent and they listed Amsoil #1 and Mobil 1 #3.
But facts be damned, there will always be someone who comes in and says this is all bs. I'm out of this thread. You cannot discuss politics, religion, or it seems oils without that happening, especially around here...lol.
Have fun and ride safe everyone!
I find it very interesting that Conventional Oil`s flashpoint is only 9 - 25 degrees lower than AMSOIL Synthetic oil.
#654
08-26-2014, 09:58 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
Attachment 396033[url]
#655
08-26-2014, 04:01 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
I place rather heavy reliance on used oil analysis, and the level of "wear metals" they report.
Based on that, I'm mostly using Amsoil products.
But they're hard to get your hands on in my area, so I occasionally use whatever "V-twin" synthetic oil is on sale at the local auto parts store.
Based on that, I'm mostly using Amsoil products.
But they're hard to get your hands on in my area, so I occasionally use whatever "V-twin" synthetic oil is on sale at the local auto parts store.
#656
08-31-2014, 11:34 PM
Road Captain
dave your amsoil guy can drop ship to you.If he won.t. Let me know. I will order and send it to your door. Also here is my problem with SYN 3 and anyone who says you can run the product in all three holes,
Would you run trans fluid in your cars engine?? Then why would you even consider running engine oil in your transmission.
Run 75/90W gear oil in the transmission In the engine and chain case oil 20/50W is fine. I sell AMSOIL, but only because it makes sense/cents. With extended life oil and filters from AMSOIL. Many folks can change the oil once or twice a year that savings more than compensates for the higher price, plus eliminates some bike downtime.
Mike
Would you run trans fluid in your cars engine?? Then why would you even consider running engine oil in your transmission.
Run 75/90W gear oil in the transmission In the engine and chain case oil 20/50W is fine. I sell AMSOIL, but only because it makes sense/cents. With extended life oil and filters from AMSOIL. Many folks can change the oil once or twice a year that savings more than compensates for the higher price, plus eliminates some bike downtime.
Mike
Last edited by spiritwarrior; 09-01-2014 at 12:12 AM.
#657
09-01-2014, 02:02 AM
IOW, your argument point is like comparing apples to oranges...
#658
09-24-2014, 07:39 AM
Advanced
New kind of oil
Has anybody tried Shell Helix ultra in their bike?? F-1 cars just started using it, her is a quote
"Combining the pure base oil made from natural gas with a selection of high performing additives results in a higher quality motor oil race formulation. It cleans and lubricates the engine, which helps to minimise frictional losses and ensure that the maximum amount of fuel energy reaches the wheels throughout the race. It also helps to deliver improved fuel economy"
I do not know if if would be good for our bikes or not, any thoughts??
tom
"Combining the pure base oil made from natural gas with a selection of high performing additives results in a higher quality motor oil race formulation. It cleans and lubricates the engine, which helps to minimise frictional losses and ensure that the maximum amount of fuel energy reaches the wheels throughout the race. It also helps to deliver improved fuel economy"
I do not know if if would be good for our bikes or not, any thoughts??
tom
#659
09-24-2014, 07:55 AM
Now let me see, why would F1 endorse it....
Maybe because they are getting paid lots and lots of money to!
I use the term endorse rather than use. Adds are great at implying stuff rather than stating facts.
Its used by Audi but ONLY because Shell signed a multi million $ sponsorship deal to sponsor Audi motorsport and the kick back was that the oil would be the only one recommended for Audi cars.
Last edited by 4_stroke; 09-24-2014 at 08:02 AM.
#660
09-24-2014, 08:02 AM
Road Warrior
Last time I checked a Harley is absolutely nothing like an Formula 1 car. They can rev up to 15,000 rpms. I'd see what the air cooled lawn and garden people are using first.