05 Deuce Starter relay clicks starter doesnt engage
#1
07-30-2015, 06:59 AM
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05 Deuce Starter relay clicks starter doesnt engage
Need some help here on my 05 Deuce. I press the start button and the starter relay will click but the starter will not engage. I tried a new relay and also found the breaker was cracked and replaced that. The wiring appears clean and I checked for loose wires at the starter. All appear tight and clean.
Any ideas? It's too nice to be unable to ride. The battery is new and holding better than 13 volts. Load tested good. Lights stay bright when trying to engage starter. Will also compression start.
Ideas please.
Any ideas? It's too nice to be unable to ride. The battery is new and holding better than 13 volts. Load tested good. Lights stay bright when trying to engage starter. Will also compression start.
Ideas please.
#2
07-30-2015, 06:15 PM
#3
08-01-2015, 05:29 PM
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#4
08-01-2015, 07:41 PM
What was the voltage?
Don`t go yanking the starter out yet...
#5
08-02-2015, 09:22 AM
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#6
08-02-2015, 09:29 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Take solenoid cover off and check under. The click is the magnet pulling it, so all is well to the starter. The large contact is probably not making. The contact overhaul kit is only about $15. Going to trust you on the battery is good along with connections and both ends of both cables... However, if you are checking after a charge, that is way low for a surface charge and that 12 volts is showing a dead battery (will run light but not nearly the amps to pull in the solenoid. . Check after setting 24 hours. What is compression start? Bright lights mean nothing if motor is not cranking. New battery means nothing if not charged due to bad connections. Most of the times, it's the simple things. Battery and connections. Keep in mind, if FI, there are two identical relays. Start and system. You need both. They can be switched since both have the timer for the fuel pump run before motor is running. Once running, the ECM runs the fuel pump all the time. But just for info...
Rev. 072315
Remember, the best made brand new battery that has been on a maintenance charger for 3 days that has a loose or bad connection is no better then a boat anchor with a loose rope. The connection can get loose after one ride if the battery is not anchored and the wires are short and get tugged in a direction that can unscrew the bolts.
After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged
Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection.
With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.
The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.
If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)
When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems.
Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in an emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair.
It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.
Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.
Rev. 072315
Remember, the best made brand new battery that has been on a maintenance charger for 3 days that has a loose or bad connection is no better then a boat anchor with a loose rope. The connection can get loose after one ride if the battery is not anchored and the wires are short and get tugged in a direction that can unscrew the bolts.
After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged
Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection.
With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.
The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.
If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)
When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems.
Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in an emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair.
It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.
Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 09-14-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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#7
08-02-2015, 12:26 PM
The only accurate way to check the circuit is while the wire is connected, if there is excess resistance somewhere you may see system voltage when the wire is disconnected, because there is no component drawing current on the circuit, but when the component is connected you will see a much lower voltage reading.
Clarify: do you hear the starter relay clicking, or the starter solenoid clicking?
Clarify: do you hear the starter relay clicking, or the starter solenoid clicking?
Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; 08-02-2015 at 12:29 PM.
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#8
08-02-2015, 02:23 PM
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The only accurate way to check the circuit is while the wire is connected, if there is excess resistance somewhere you may see system voltage when the wire is disconnected, because there is no component drawing current on the circuit, but when the component is connected you will see a much lower voltage reading.
Clarify: do you hear the starter relay clicking, or the starter solenoid clicking?
Clarify: do you hear the starter relay clicking, or the starter solenoid clicking?
#9
08-02-2015, 02:34 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#10
08-02-2015, 02:58 PM