Odd Starter Behavior...or Bad?
#1
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Summit, Mississippi
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Odd Starter Behavior...or Bad?
I can't blame this on a higher compression rebuild, because when I purchased this bike (1998 RK), the starter seemed to be dragging, but one's first thought would be to chalk it up to a likely tired battery. The battery tested good with the meter, 12.5+- and 14 +- while running. I did not have it load tested. The battery was three years old and I have a replacement in hand, but have not installed it yet....because my voltage regulator failed the test in the sticky, so I have one on order. It cranks right up cold, but hot.....the starter drags. I stopped for fuel this week and the thing would not start....only click...click...click, like you would get from a weak battery. I was about to call the wife to bring the jumper cables, but after about 5-minutes....it fired right up.
Now...knowing the voltage regulator is suspect (failed the test and has a small voltage present on both leads) I am trying to wrap my brain around what's happening here. The alternator passes ALL test and is good.
Could this be just a starter that is dragging when it gets warm/hot. Not from heavy use....but by riding the bike? I cranked it up, rode some 25-miles to a gas station and when I hit the button....it just acted like a dead battery until it cooled for a few minutes, then fired right off. I have since removed the solenoid plunger and cleaned those surfaces, but I won't know what has done any good until I have replaced the known (by testing) defective regulator.
Any thoughts?
Now...knowing the voltage regulator is suspect (failed the test and has a small voltage present on both leads) I am trying to wrap my brain around what's happening here. The alternator passes ALL test and is good.
Could this be just a starter that is dragging when it gets warm/hot. Not from heavy use....but by riding the bike? I cranked it up, rode some 25-miles to a gas station and when I hit the button....it just acted like a dead battery until it cooled for a few minutes, then fired right off. I have since removed the solenoid plunger and cleaned those surfaces, but I won't know what has done any good until I have replaced the known (by testing) defective regulator.
Any thoughts?
#2
Wait until you install the new regulator, then check out the charging system.
Trying to troubleshoot before you have a known good charging system/battery will be like chasing your tail...
Some things you can do now are: clean all the battery cable connections and ground connections (check that ground cable between the starter and the frame), solenoid connections, relay connections, consider replacing the starter relay, they`re cheap).
I would replace the contacts and plunger on the starter solenoid, you can find these parts at any starter repair shop (at a fraction of the dealer price). This is a very common automotive starter.
Trying to troubleshoot before you have a known good charging system/battery will be like chasing your tail...
Some things you can do now are: clean all the battery cable connections and ground connections (check that ground cable between the starter and the frame), solenoid connections, relay connections, consider replacing the starter relay, they`re cheap).
I would replace the contacts and plunger on the starter solenoid, you can find these parts at any starter repair shop (at a fraction of the dealer price). This is a very common automotive starter.
Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; 08-02-2014 at 08:10 AM.
#3
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Thanks for the response. Yep....I understand that. I am an electronics engineer by degree and trade (even though retired now). I have performed plenty of tail-chasing exercises.
The pins on my regulator both measure .245 volts. Now...that isn't much and since both pins carry the exact same potential and fit into the stator that is a closed coil....they would cancel-out and do nothing. BUT...according to all the test procedures I read, if those pins have any degree of voltage appearing on the pins....it's defective and that's what I'm going by. I would like to find a schematic of the regulator internals and I can figure out how that's happening. Obviously, leakage in the rectifier circuit. I do not reside close to a dealer, so I have a regulator on order and will test it and then install it before I go any further.
I should know better, but we all are capable of jumping thru our rear-ends and spastically searching for a complicated problem that is not all that complicated. Since I created this thread, I have gone back and removed EVERY bolted-down or screwed on connection and did indeed find some corrosion on the cable-to-starter copper stud.
Different metals expand and contract at different rates. Not trying to get too scientific here, but I can visualize a cold connection (starts right up if it's cool) failing as the connection components heat-up. Copper stud, plated copper cable against a steel base on the starter held in place by a steel nut....which was filled with corrosion that could not be seen. That connection "looked" so clean that I passed it over the first time I cleaned the battery cables.
It makes sense now. When the bike was cool, the connection would "make" and all was well. When hot, the connection would open-up to some degree and increase the resistance in the battery cable to starter connection. Current flow is determined by potential (voltage) divided by the resistance in the circuit (ohms). A cable with .5 ohms of resistance would afford a flow of 24 amps. Just adding 1/2 an ohm (poor connection) would limit the current flow to 12 amps.....that's cutting the starting capacity by 50%.
I may have fixed it already, but sometimes...things can be a blessing in disguise. If indeed I have found a potentially failed/failing regulator....now is the time to replace it. I'll know if I have fixed it when the new VR gets here.
The pins on my regulator both measure .245 volts. Now...that isn't much and since both pins carry the exact same potential and fit into the stator that is a closed coil....they would cancel-out and do nothing. BUT...according to all the test procedures I read, if those pins have any degree of voltage appearing on the pins....it's defective and that's what I'm going by. I would like to find a schematic of the regulator internals and I can figure out how that's happening. Obviously, leakage in the rectifier circuit. I do not reside close to a dealer, so I have a regulator on order and will test it and then install it before I go any further.
I should know better, but we all are capable of jumping thru our rear-ends and spastically searching for a complicated problem that is not all that complicated. Since I created this thread, I have gone back and removed EVERY bolted-down or screwed on connection and did indeed find some corrosion on the cable-to-starter copper stud.
Different metals expand and contract at different rates. Not trying to get too scientific here, but I can visualize a cold connection (starts right up if it's cool) failing as the connection components heat-up. Copper stud, plated copper cable against a steel base on the starter held in place by a steel nut....which was filled with corrosion that could not be seen. That connection "looked" so clean that I passed it over the first time I cleaned the battery cables.
It makes sense now. When the bike was cool, the connection would "make" and all was well. When hot, the connection would open-up to some degree and increase the resistance in the battery cable to starter connection. Current flow is determined by potential (voltage) divided by the resistance in the circuit (ohms). A cable with .5 ohms of resistance would afford a flow of 24 amps. Just adding 1/2 an ohm (poor connection) would limit the current flow to 12 amps.....that's cutting the starting capacity by 50%.
I may have fixed it already, but sometimes...things can be a blessing in disguise. If indeed I have found a potentially failed/failing regulator....now is the time to replace it. I'll know if I have fixed it when the new VR gets here.
Last edited by 0734; 08-02-2014 at 08:44 AM.
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