Is it worth it to do just stage 1 and cams?
#31
08-31-2015, 08:53 PM
Ok, keep the above quote in mind, and I'm going to add to it. This was your original post before you edited it. Since I get email notifications of posts in threads to which I'm subscribed, I saw the original. Here's what you said:
"I'm also going to have to pay for some transportation after dropping off the bike, and then also to pick it up."
I'm going to take a risk, and give you some advice. I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. Take it for what it's worth. If this temporary transportation, whether it's a rental car or whatever, is something you even have to think about at all, you can't afford a ProPipe, air cleaner, and a tune. Don't do it. Just enjoy the hell out of your LowRider, and save the money.
Honestly, now I'm concerned you're going to have to give up this bike like you did the Road King. Don't spend the money. You can't afford it.
"I'm also going to have to pay for some transportation after dropping off the bike, and then also to pick it up."
I'm going to take a risk, and give you some advice. I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. Take it for what it's worth. If this temporary transportation, whether it's a rental car or whatever, is something you even have to think about at all, you can't afford a ProPipe, air cleaner, and a tune. Don't do it. Just enjoy the hell out of your LowRider, and save the money.
Honestly, now I'm concerned you're going to have to give up this bike like you did the Road King. Don't spend the money. You can't afford it.
#32
10-01-2015, 03:45 PM
Grand HDF Member
Which Indy are you using?
Where are you in NJ? I'm in Bergen County. I'll be ordering cams/lifters/gaskets shortly and plan on doing the install myself. Parts and tools will probably run about $650-700. I already have the inner bearing puller. If you're feeling brave, you're more than welcome to borrow the puller. Or, come over and we'll do the cam changes on both our bikes.
Where are you in NJ? I'm in Bergen County. I'll be ordering cams/lifters/gaskets shortly and plan on doing the install myself. Parts and tools will probably run about $650-700. I already have the inner bearing puller. If you're feeling brave, you're more than welcome to borrow the puller. Or, come over and we'll do the cam changes on both our bikes.
#33
10-02-2015, 10:19 AM
Andrews 48's are great, as are MR103's and Andrews 57........ Lots of great bolt in cams out there. I do disagree however that you NEED new lifters, especially on a motor with less than 10K miles. It may save you a few dollars, also you can get Ultima quickie pushrods for about $100, and I have found andrews cams on Amazon right at the $200-$225 mark.
#34
10-02-2015, 10:37 AM
#35
10-02-2015, 11:47 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#36
10-02-2015, 01:21 PM
Road Master
op do the set up u have planed get BOLT IN CAMS u wont need all the other stuff every one is telling u to get u don't need it. that's y they call them BOLT IN CAMS. I've done mine and a friend's just bolt in cams no adjustable push rods no lifters no rockers. and they run fine. all we got were fuel tuners to add fuel. v h fuel pack
#37
10-02-2015, 01:43 PM
op do the set up u have planed get BOLT IN CAMS u wont need all the other stuff every one is telling u to get u don't need it. that's y they call them BOLT IN CAMS. I've done mine and a friend's just bolt in cams no adjustable push rods no lifters no rockers. and they run fine. all we got were fuel tuners to add fuel. v h fuel pack
Adjustable pushrods are a convenience. One either retains the OEM pushrods which requires additional labor to remove the rocker covers and loosen up the rocker support plate to R/R the pushrods, or one saves time by cutting out the OEM pushrods thereby avoiding the additional labor. Simple choice; save time and spend a bit more or don't.
Both are the builder's choice.
#38
10-02-2015, 05:10 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
IMHO, I would never replace a cam without doing the lifters, Just my personal preference. Ask any builder what their preference is. You also want the pushrods to match the lifters, trust me I found out the hard way check out the pic. I know that their after market but they are supposed to be better than stock. S&S adjustables match S&S standard lifters perfectly and when you put in a hotter cam the motor will actually run hotter which will cause more expansion so the the increase of preload (.140") on the lifter is essential. I don't think you'll get that with stock pushrods. Plus like djl said no disassembly of the heads. Snip the old and install the new there's a cost savings right there...... Oh one more thing, Do you think my old pushrods were quiet?
#39
01-02-2018, 07:26 AM
galaxfe was making the point that the OEM head flow flattens out at .500" lift so there is really no measureable benefit to be gained by installing cams with .560" lift. While I agree to a point, even with a higher lift cam, the valve is held open a bit longer and the head is still flowing, but the flow velocity is not increasing as it was as the cam approached .500" lift. Comprende??
Anyone doubting the performance of the SE204 cam should take a look at the cam comparison chart of HD cams in a Stage I 103" motor.
I am thinking you need to find another shop that will work with you to get you what you want; they are out there. Or, you can save some $$ by purchasing the exhaust direct; perhaps find a Propipe or something similar on Ebay, purchase the SE air filter kit, inner cam bearings, exhaust gaskets and a set of SE cams from an online discount dealer, lifters from an S&S dealer and get the service manual for your bike and roll up your sleeves and do the work yourself. Then install the Powervision and find a good tuner.
Anyone doubting the performance of the SE204 cam should take a look at the cam comparison chart of HD cams in a Stage I 103" motor.
I am thinking you need to find another shop that will work with you to get you what you want; they are out there. Or, you can save some $$ by purchasing the exhaust direct; perhaps find a Propipe or something similar on Ebay, purchase the SE air filter kit, inner cam bearings, exhaust gaskets and a set of SE cams from an online discount dealer, lifters from an S&S dealer and get the service manual for your bike and roll up your sleeves and do the work yourself. Then install the Powervision and find a good tuner.
DITTO
Unless you have upgraded heads, adding cam lift above .500 does little to increase greater flow. It only creates stress on the valve train.
Even though overall duration is not changed, depending on the cam profile itself (e.g. the steepness of the ramp getting up to the maximum lift), a cam with a lift higher than .500 may give you more duration at the .500 level since after .500 it still has to lift even more before coming back down below .500 but this is usually not much.
If you are using stock heads and want to stick with Screamin Eagle cams, the 204 is hard to beat.
You have a little over .500 lift with the 204's but greater duration to allow longer flow times with the limited stock heads. The increased duration timing specs also provide very good low end torque as well as one of the top high-end power curves of the bunch.
Look closely at that cam comparison chart previously posted.
.
Last edited by leafman60; 01-02-2018 at 08:13 AM.
#40
01-02-2018, 09:32 AM
Second, you as well as others don't understand my comment on cam lift vis flow. I do agree with your hi-lited statement above; however, that was not what I said. What I have consistently said is that IMHO there is no significant benefit to be had from cams with .560" lift with stock, or any other heads, where flow flattens at .500" lift; however, there is some benefit to be had because even though flow is not increasing, a head that flows 240cfm at .500" and at .560" lift, is still flowing and filling the cylinder. So, I see no downside to installing cams with .560", or higher, lift with heads where flow flattens at .500" lift.
Thirdly, I don't agree that valve train stress is an issue in that case above when even the OEM beehive springs are designed to accommodate .600" lift.
Last edited by djl; 01-02-2018 at 12:04 PM.