Cam Install and (*&%*%$^$%$%@!!!!...Ughhh
#1
07-02-2016, 09:39 AM
Cam Install and (*&%*%$^$%$%@!!!!...Ughhh
I sit here about to leave on an MC trip with my wife (she has her own bike) for a few days as she's in the shower and I need advice. Yesterday afternoon, stupidly deciding a week ago to do a cam install right before a trip, I loaded in the Andrews 57h map from the FP3, I said a little prayer, gave it a 3...2...1... and hit the starter button.......it did not go as planned. Fortunately, I have a most excellent friend who is loaning me his Sportster for the trip.
Since last Sat, I've been working on putting in chromed rocker covers and doing an install of a set of Andrews 57h cams. In conjunction with that, I bought gaskets for the rocker covers, the little O-ring that sits between the head and lower rocker cover, a Fueling cam gasket kit (inclusive of cam bearings - which were install with the Heartland cam tool), S&S adjustable pushrods and S&S hydraulic lifters. I've been reading a lot of threads / watching a lot of videos on cam installation and all that entails, and have been following the HD shop manual.
Rocker covers were installed with new gaskets
Cams were checked 3x to make sure the timing dots lined up
Sprockets for the cams were checked 3x to make sure their timing dots lined up
S&S Adjustable Pushrods were set to finger tight and then 25 flats (each flat = .005".... S&S instructions said to add 0.125 preload to S&S Hydraulic lifters). Waited 10 min and then checked to verify they could be rotated by finger. They were rotatable with light resistance.
I started the bike yesterday and.....
- Valves sound very clackety
- Rhythm, or cadence of the engine sounds entirely different. Kind of expected there would be a timing difference with the cam change, but my gut tells me it sounds wrong.
- Oil pressure light on the instrument panel would stay on from time of start up and when the bike was running
- After about 3 or 4 min, the oil light on the speedo-dash came on
I let the bike cool down and did this again to the same result. I have a V&H FP3 and after letting the bike cool again, while watching the error codes on my phone ran the bike again. I also was watching engine temp. It warmed quickly ,and when the engine temp go to about 194 or so, the oil light on the speedo dash had come on. Error codes read as Front O2 sensor getting sporadic reading (FP3 listed as reasons possible break in the wire due to the twisting of wire when removing/installing and not deep enough in the pipe). The other error code was the Throttle Position Sensor was open. There was no reason listed from the FP3.
Assumptions for fixes...
Front O2 sensor. Easy enough...reinstall or buy a new one and install
TPS Open - Will have to look into this one. Currently have no idea. Aside from reading the shop manual on this, any suggestions?
Oil lights - During the install I ran into the following issues....
In the HD manual, the sequence is remove the Oil Pump bolts from the cam plate and then remove the screws from the cam plate to remove from the cam chest. And that's what I did. Right as I did that, the light bulb went on and I remember from one of the videos I had watched recommending not removing the oil pump from the cam plate. If one removes the oil pump from the cam plate, is there some kind of "service" that needs be done to the oil pump or is it a straight and easy rebolting of the oil pump back to the cam plate? I have to recheck the order of the parts as they go back into the unit, but I specifically ran through it 2x to make sure the order was correct. All 3 O rings were replaced for the oil pump. I'll have to tear it all down again, but yeah, I'm assuming it's something I didn't do correctly with the oil pump, either reinstallation or didn't service something.
Also, the Oil Pressure sensor connector was yanked out of the actual rubber connector that seats to the nipple of the sensor which sits on the front tire side of the outer housing the cam chest. I went to HD and they said that goes to the wiring harness. No suggested fix was given. Went to a few auto parts stores and no had that connector. I pulled off the rubber and tried recrimping and soldering the wire to the connector. Put the rubber back and sealed. I'm guessing this didn't work as the oil pressure light was on the whole time while the bike was running.
Since I'll be tearing this all down anyway and will need to get to take the pushrods out, when reinstalling the push rods, since using the S&S Hydraulic lifters, do I need to only get to finger tight or readd the preload of .125"?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Since last Sat, I've been working on putting in chromed rocker covers and doing an install of a set of Andrews 57h cams. In conjunction with that, I bought gaskets for the rocker covers, the little O-ring that sits between the head and lower rocker cover, a Fueling cam gasket kit (inclusive of cam bearings - which were install with the Heartland cam tool), S&S adjustable pushrods and S&S hydraulic lifters. I've been reading a lot of threads / watching a lot of videos on cam installation and all that entails, and have been following the HD shop manual.
Rocker covers were installed with new gaskets
Cams were checked 3x to make sure the timing dots lined up
Sprockets for the cams were checked 3x to make sure their timing dots lined up
S&S Adjustable Pushrods were set to finger tight and then 25 flats (each flat = .005".... S&S instructions said to add 0.125 preload to S&S Hydraulic lifters). Waited 10 min and then checked to verify they could be rotated by finger. They were rotatable with light resistance.
I started the bike yesterday and.....
- Valves sound very clackety
- Rhythm, or cadence of the engine sounds entirely different. Kind of expected there would be a timing difference with the cam change, but my gut tells me it sounds wrong.
- Oil pressure light on the instrument panel would stay on from time of start up and when the bike was running
- After about 3 or 4 min, the oil light on the speedo-dash came on
I let the bike cool down and did this again to the same result. I have a V&H FP3 and after letting the bike cool again, while watching the error codes on my phone ran the bike again. I also was watching engine temp. It warmed quickly ,and when the engine temp go to about 194 or so, the oil light on the speedo dash had come on. Error codes read as Front O2 sensor getting sporadic reading (FP3 listed as reasons possible break in the wire due to the twisting of wire when removing/installing and not deep enough in the pipe). The other error code was the Throttle Position Sensor was open. There was no reason listed from the FP3.
Assumptions for fixes...
Front O2 sensor. Easy enough...reinstall or buy a new one and install
TPS Open - Will have to look into this one. Currently have no idea. Aside from reading the shop manual on this, any suggestions?
Oil lights - During the install I ran into the following issues....
In the HD manual, the sequence is remove the Oil Pump bolts from the cam plate and then remove the screws from the cam plate to remove from the cam chest. And that's what I did. Right as I did that, the light bulb went on and I remember from one of the videos I had watched recommending not removing the oil pump from the cam plate. If one removes the oil pump from the cam plate, is there some kind of "service" that needs be done to the oil pump or is it a straight and easy rebolting of the oil pump back to the cam plate? I have to recheck the order of the parts as they go back into the unit, but I specifically ran through it 2x to make sure the order was correct. All 3 O rings were replaced for the oil pump. I'll have to tear it all down again, but yeah, I'm assuming it's something I didn't do correctly with the oil pump, either reinstallation or didn't service something.
Also, the Oil Pressure sensor connector was yanked out of the actual rubber connector that seats to the nipple of the sensor which sits on the front tire side of the outer housing the cam chest. I went to HD and they said that goes to the wiring harness. No suggested fix was given. Went to a few auto parts stores and no had that connector. I pulled off the rubber and tried recrimping and soldering the wire to the connector. Put the rubber back and sealed. I'm guessing this didn't work as the oil pressure light was on the whole time while the bike was running.
Since I'll be tearing this all down anyway and will need to get to take the pushrods out, when reinstalling the push rods, since using the S&S Hydraulic lifters, do I need to only get to finger tight or readd the preload of .125"?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Last edited by rauchman; 07-02-2016 at 09:47 AM.
#2
07-02-2016, 11:19 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
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rauchman (07-05-2016)
#5
07-03-2016, 09:21 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
If you are thinking about the scavenge O ring that goes in the cases, I would think that it won't make any difference in oil pressure. It is on the scavenge side of the pump and has no effect on the pressure side. Now if it's an 06 or earlier motor, there is an o ring between the pump housing and cam plate that can get pinched if it falls out of its groove.
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rauchman (07-05-2016)
#7
07-03-2016, 06:59 PM
I sit here about to leave on an MC trip with my wife (she has her own bike) for a few days as she's in the shower and I need advice. Yesterday afternoon, stupidly deciding a week ago to do a cam install right before a trip, I loaded in the Andrews 57h map from the FP3, I said a little prayer, gave it a 3...2...1... and hit the starter button.......it did not go as planned. Fortunately, I have a most excellent friend who is loaning me his Sportster for the trip.
Since last Sat, I've been working on putting in chromed rocker covers and doing an install of a set of Andrews 57h cams. In conjunction with that, I bought gaskets for the rocker covers, the little O-ring that sits between the head and lower rocker cover, a Fueling cam gasket kit (inclusive of cam bearings - which were install with the Heartland cam tool), S&S adjustable pushrods and S&S hydraulic lifters. I've been reading a lot of threads / watching a lot of videos on cam installation and all that entails, and have been following the HD shop manual.
Rocker covers were installed with new gaskets
Cams were checked 3x to make sure the timing dots lined up
Sprockets for the cams were checked 3x to make sure their timing dots lined up
S&S Adjustable Pushrods were set to finger tight and then 25 flats (each flat = .005".... S&S instructions said to add 0.125 preload to S&S Hydraulic lifters). Waited 10 min and then checked to verify they could be rotated by finger. They were rotatable with light resistance.
I started the bike yesterday and.....
- Valves sound very clackety
- Rhythm, or cadence of the engine sounds entirely different. Kind of expected there would be a timing difference with the cam change, but my gut tells me it sounds wrong.
- Oil pressure light on the instrument panel would stay on from time of start up and when the bike was running
- After about 3 or 4 min, the oil light on the speedo-dash came on
I let the bike cool down and did this again to the same result. I have a V&H FP3 and after letting the bike cool again, while watching the error codes on my phone ran the bike again. I also was watching engine temp. It warmed quickly ,and when the engine temp go to about 194 or so, the oil light on the speedo dash had come on. Error codes read as Front O2 sensor getting sporadic reading (FP3 listed as reasons possible break in the wire due to the twisting of wire when removing/installing and not deep enough in the pipe). The other error code was the Throttle Position Sensor was open. There was no reason listed from the FP3.
Assumptions for fixes...
Front O2 sensor. Easy enough...reinstall or buy a new one and install
TPS Open - Will have to look into this one. Currently have no idea. Aside from reading the shop manual on this, any suggestions?
Oil lights - During the install I ran into the following issues....
In the HD manual, the sequence is remove the Oil Pump bolts from the cam plate and then remove the screws from the cam plate to remove from the cam chest. And that's what I did. Right as I did that, the light bulb went on and I remember from one of the videos I had watched recommending not removing the oil pump from the cam plate. If one removes the oil pump from the cam plate, is there some kind of "service" that needs be done to the oil pump or is it a straight and easy rebolting of the oil pump back to the cam plate? I have to recheck the order of the parts as they go back into the unit, but I specifically ran through it 2x to make sure the order was correct. All 3 O rings were replaced for the oil pump. I'll have to tear it all down again, but yeah, I'm assuming it's something I didn't do correctly with the oil pump, either reinstallation or didn't service something.
Also, the Oil Pressure sensor connector was yanked out of the actual rubber connector that seats to the nipple of the sensor which sits on the front tire side of the outer housing the cam chest. I went to HD and they said that goes to the wiring harness. No suggested fix was given. Went to a few auto parts stores and no had that connector. I pulled off the rubber and tried recrimping and soldering the wire to the connector. Put the rubber back and sealed. I'm guessing this didn't work as the oil pressure light was on the whole time while the bike was running.
Since I'll be tearing this all down anyway and will need to get to take the pushrods out, when reinstalling the push rods, since using the S&S Hydraulic lifters, do I need to only get to finger tight or readd the preload of .125"?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Since last Sat, I've been working on putting in chromed rocker covers and doing an install of a set of Andrews 57h cams. In conjunction with that, I bought gaskets for the rocker covers, the little O-ring that sits between the head and lower rocker cover, a Fueling cam gasket kit (inclusive of cam bearings - which were install with the Heartland cam tool), S&S adjustable pushrods and S&S hydraulic lifters. I've been reading a lot of threads / watching a lot of videos on cam installation and all that entails, and have been following the HD shop manual.
Rocker covers were installed with new gaskets
Cams were checked 3x to make sure the timing dots lined up
Sprockets for the cams were checked 3x to make sure their timing dots lined up
S&S Adjustable Pushrods were set to finger tight and then 25 flats (each flat = .005".... S&S instructions said to add 0.125 preload to S&S Hydraulic lifters). Waited 10 min and then checked to verify they could be rotated by finger. They were rotatable with light resistance.
I started the bike yesterday and.....
- Valves sound very clackety
- Rhythm, or cadence of the engine sounds entirely different. Kind of expected there would be a timing difference with the cam change, but my gut tells me it sounds wrong.
- Oil pressure light on the instrument panel would stay on from time of start up and when the bike was running
- After about 3 or 4 min, the oil light on the speedo-dash came on
I let the bike cool down and did this again to the same result. I have a V&H FP3 and after letting the bike cool again, while watching the error codes on my phone ran the bike again. I also was watching engine temp. It warmed quickly ,and when the engine temp go to about 194 or so, the oil light on the speedo dash had come on. Error codes read as Front O2 sensor getting sporadic reading (FP3 listed as reasons possible break in the wire due to the twisting of wire when removing/installing and not deep enough in the pipe). The other error code was the Throttle Position Sensor was open. There was no reason listed from the FP3.
Assumptions for fixes...
Front O2 sensor. Easy enough...reinstall or buy a new one and install
TPS Open - Will have to look into this one. Currently have no idea. Aside from reading the shop manual on this, any suggestions?
Oil lights - During the install I ran into the following issues....
In the HD manual, the sequence is remove the Oil Pump bolts from the cam plate and then remove the screws from the cam plate to remove from the cam chest. And that's what I did. Right as I did that, the light bulb went on and I remember from one of the videos I had watched recommending not removing the oil pump from the cam plate. If one removes the oil pump from the cam plate, is there some kind of "service" that needs be done to the oil pump or is it a straight and easy rebolting of the oil pump back to the cam plate? I have to recheck the order of the parts as they go back into the unit, but I specifically ran through it 2x to make sure the order was correct. All 3 O rings were replaced for the oil pump. I'll have to tear it all down again, but yeah, I'm assuming it's something I didn't do correctly with the oil pump, either reinstallation or didn't service something.
Also, the Oil Pressure sensor connector was yanked out of the actual rubber connector that seats to the nipple of the sensor which sits on the front tire side of the outer housing the cam chest. I went to HD and they said that goes to the wiring harness. No suggested fix was given. Went to a few auto parts stores and no had that connector. I pulled off the rubber and tried recrimping and soldering the wire to the connector. Put the rubber back and sealed. I'm guessing this didn't work as the oil pressure light was on the whole time while the bike was running.
Since I'll be tearing this all down anyway and will need to get to take the pushrods out, when reinstalling the push rods, since using the S&S Hydraulic lifters, do I need to only get to finger tight or readd the preload of .125"?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?
The following users liked this post:
rauchman (07-05-2016)
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#8
07-05-2016, 09:44 AM
Just back from a 3 day ride with my wife. My wife on her Switchback and me, on my buddy's Sportster 1200 Custom w/ Mustang seat, bags, mid mount pegs, crash guard with footrests and a screen. Ride around VT and stayed in Killington for a couple of nights. Beautiful up there. The whole time.... I was missing my bike! Gotta stay, after a 700+mile 3 day trip, the Sportster is a nice bike in it's own right. The FLD feels like a Cadillac in comparison though.
I did not. Just finished reading the manual on this section and I definitely did not do this. What exactly does this process do?
Yes. Between this and not doing the centering process, I hope this is the culprit.
How would one know if the O-ring shifted during installation?
Definitely not. Sequence is correct.
The more I think on this, it has to be the way I reassembled the pump and potentially, the centering process. Rather, I hope so, since I now know how to fix my bike.
Since the pushrods will be coming out, does the preload for the lifter need to reset or leave it alone? Is it the same process of extend the length of the pushrod to hand tight, add whatever # of flats to get 0.125, or as you recommend 0.140 (why the increase?), wait 15 min or so and verify the pushrod is hand twirlable with light resistance.
Thank you all for your suggestions. It is killing me that my bike is down.
It takes a while for lifters to pump up and your oil is probally put together wrong grommets and waving washer *** backwards their for no oil pressure to pump the lifters up and this is why your oil lite is on. Take it back apart reassemble oil pump and you will see what happened. If pump is working lifters will quiet down.Also you might want to pre load lifter at .140 instead of .125
Since the pushrods will be coming out, does the preload for the lifter need to reset or leave it alone? Is it the same process of extend the length of the pushrod to hand tight, add whatever # of flats to get 0.125, or as you recommend 0.140 (why the increase?), wait 15 min or so and verify the pushrod is hand twirlable with light resistance.
Thank you all for your suggestions. It is killing me that my bike is down.
Last edited by rauchman; 07-05-2016 at 09:46 AM.
#9
07-05-2016, 08:56 PM
[QUOTE=rauchman;15297275]Just back from a 3 day ride with my wife. My wife on her Switchback and me, on my buddy's Sportster 1200 Custom w/ Mustang seat, bags, mid mount pegs, crash guard with footrests and a screen. Ride around VT and stayed in Killington for a couple of nights. Beautiful up there. The whole time.... I was missing my bike! Gotta stay, after a 700+mile 3 day trip, the Sportster is a nice bike in it's own right. The FLD feels like a Cadillac in comparison though.
I did not. Just finished reading the manual on this section and I definitely did not do this. What exactly does this process do?
Yes. Between this and not doing the centering process, I hope this is the culprit.
How would one know if the O-ring shifted during installation?
Definitely not. Sequence is correct.
The more I think on this, it has to be the way I reassembled the pump and potentially, the centering process. Rather, I hope so, since I now know how to fix my bike.
Since the pushrods will be coming out, does the preload for the lifter need to reset or leave it alone? Is it the same process of extend the length of the pushrod to hand tight, add whatever # of flats to get 0.125, or as you recommend 0.140 (why the increase?), wait 15 min or so and verify the pushrod is hand twirlable with light resistance.
Thank you all for your suggestions. It is killing me that my bike is down.[/QUOT .140 More preload well quiet that valve train down and yes do adjust your push rods again after you put your pump back together right this time.Youll see what you did ive done it myself.
I did not. Just finished reading the manual on this section and I definitely did not do this. What exactly does this process do?
Yes. Between this and not doing the centering process, I hope this is the culprit.
How would one know if the O-ring shifted during installation?
Definitely not. Sequence is correct.
The more I think on this, it has to be the way I reassembled the pump and potentially, the centering process. Rather, I hope so, since I now know how to fix my bike.
Since the pushrods will be coming out, does the preload for the lifter need to reset or leave it alone? Is it the same process of extend the length of the pushrod to hand tight, add whatever # of flats to get 0.125, or as you recommend 0.140 (why the increase?), wait 15 min or so and verify the pushrod is hand twirlable with light resistance.
Thank you all for your suggestions. It is killing me that my bike is down.[/QUOT .140 More preload well quiet that valve train down and yes do adjust your push rods again after you put your pump back together right this time.Youll see what you did ive done it myself.
#10
07-06-2016, 01:24 PM
Road Captain
I'm not sure I understand about the pushrods. How would you not have to readjust them ? How do you remove them without shortening them? I'm not being smart, just wondering if I could remove mine without readjusting them next time I go in for an inspection
Last edited by Gozzie; 07-06-2016 at 01:34 PM.