okay you asked for it mate!!

What are:

1. true duals?
2. Stage 1,2,3 ??
3. Fuel management system/

thanks

 

1. two separate pipes, usually applied to dressers, with the rear pipe crossing to the left side, giving a muffler each side of the bike. Stock exhausts since the '60s across all brands use some form of linking pipe between cylinders, as that gives better torque.
2. there are no dictionary definitions and you will see variations. Stage 1 is often described as simply changing air filter (the stock one is also a muffler, so very quiet) and changing to aftermarket exhaust mufflers. Modern EFI bikes will benefit from using a tuner, to optimise fuelling. However H-D sell stage 1 kits that include big bore cylinders and ported heads! Having said that I'm not going to try to define the others! There are progressive stages we can take, such as changing cams, larger carbs or EFi bodies, complete exhaust systems. Most if not all of them require modifications to the engine management system, to optimise ignition timing and fuelling.
3. The electronic box which controls the fuel injection system, combined these days into the ECM, which also manages ignition timing and monitors various sensors around the engine.

 

coltm4 ... keep researching and keep asking. Eventually, you will ... and know what you want.

I, too, am looking for new exhaust ... and am doing the same thing you are: researching and asking!

Good luck

 

We have a deal going on for HD forum members $1089 for the tuner Exhaust and air cleaner

 

Sound and performance, D&D fat cats.....

Power, Andrews 48H cams a better air cleaner (so to breath better) and then a good tune.. you'll be amazed.....

 

True duals are two separate head pipes connecting to two separate mufflers with no connection. Best application are highly modified and large displacement motors. Duals with a connection, i.e., a merge collector, power chamber, etc. also have two separate mufflers but with common collector in the head pipes before separating to the two tail pipes.

The "stage" terminology is unique to Harleys and has no gotten almost ridiculous with Stage IV kits. Stage I includes replacement of OEM air filter and exhaust with hi flow components and should include a tune but HD dealers sell a Stage I flash to the ECM which is a waste of money; better to spring for a fuel management system and a dyno tune. Stage 2 is Stage I plus bigger bore cylinders and cams. Stage 3 is Stage 2 plus head work. There may be differing opinions on what is included in Stage 1,2 and 3 with the addition of Stage 4 and 5 in the last two years but, in general terms, Stage 1,2 and 3 are as described.

Fuel management system is specifically designed to address air, fuel and timing required to optimize the performance of Stage whatever upgrades. There are two basic types, flash or speed density tuners and "piggy" back tuners/fuelers or throttle position tuners. Flash tuners re-program the ECM and fuelers modify the signals sent to the ECM to conform to the new air, fuel and/or timing requirements of the new motor configuration. As a general rule, fuelers cannot alter timing, only add or take away fuel.

For your budget, you can complete a Stage 1 upgrade but the budget won't cover the cost of a fuel management system like the TTS Mastertune or DJ Powervision and a tune. Which I would recommend for a Stage I upgrade. It will make a huge difference in performance and you should bite the bullet and get it done ASAP.

Not sure why dfwhockey is steering you away from Vance and Hines. The V&H Power Duals are a good head pipe as well as a couple of their mufflers but you could install a variety of mufflers on any head pipe, i.e, Rush, Cycle Shack, Rinehart, etc., many to choose from.

 

^V&H quality and customer service has been lacking IMO lately. Too many damaged/wrong/missing parts out of the box, paper thin heat shields with shoddy chrome and welds. I could elaborate, but this is not the place to go into it.

Cycle Shack is going out or has gone out of business so if you like their pipes, scoop them up now while some of the stuff is still available, I just ordered a set of slash cut drag pipes on closeout for under $150 for a sporty project here at the shop.

Stage breakdown:
Stage 1: Intake, exhaust and tuner/tune
Stage 2: Cams plus stage 1
Stage 3: Big bore plus stages 1-2.
Stage 4: Head work plus stages 1-2-3.

Most people end up doing stages 3 and 4 at the same time to avoid doing work twice and to 'build' the motor properly with desired compression/flow for the cams, pistons, intake, exhaust, etc.

 

I haven't bought any pipes from V&H in a while so dfwhockey17 may be right about quality and customer service; don't know. I do know that setting quality and service aside, some of the V&H systems perform well. Having said that, there are several manufacturers that are putting out systems that perform as well or better in some instances. I did recently buy a set of Bassani Pro Streets for one of my bikes and have to say that fit and finish are excellent and the install was a snap. My first set of Bassanis and I am impressed. I have run Rinehart duals on my bagger but replace them with a Fuel Moto X-pipe and 4" Jackpot mufflers when I converted the early system to the later cross under system and was happy with the fit and finish of both.

See what I mean about relying on the Stage terminology to understand what is included? dfwhockey17 has a similar but slightly different idea of what each stage means. It's not a subject to be argued or debated, it's just to damn confusing. which is the point.

If you look in the SE Performance catalog, you will see a Stage I kit (PN29903-07A) to increase the displacement of a 96" motor to 103". The kit includes cylinders, pistons, backing plate, air filter and clutch spring; no exhaust upgrade is included.

Then, right next to it, is the Stage II kit (PN 27543-08) to increase the displacement of a 96" motor to a 103" motor that includes everything in the above referenced Stage I kit, plus cams; no exhaust is included.

Then there is the Pro Stage III kit (PN 27513-08C) to increase the displacement of a 96" motor to 103" that includes all the stuff in the Stage II "legal" kit but the pistons are domed for higher compression, cams but different cams, pushrods, valve springs, clutch spring and super tuner; no intake or exhaust is included.

Back in the day, there was no Stage IV and V, and no "legal" vs "race" stage kits. The terminology has evolved as the MoCo has expanded the ways to take your money. Just saying that it is best to avoid the "stage" terminology as it is confusing.

Off the soap box now.