Started compiling an upgrade list & doing some homework trying to understand the pro's & con's of each & every component I'm considering.
I'm not one to waste money unnecessarily, (usually) but do believe as with any hobby or life style you are going to either pay now or pay later so it really doesn't make "cents", (haha, I make funni), to skimp out now & have to pay again later.
I know everybody has their likes & dislikes but as stated before, if I'm gonna spend the money I might as well go all out at this point-n-time & purchase components which can be utilized down the road when upgrading through stage 2 & 3 or a full blown over haul increasing the CI's & everything else..

Also did some research wanting to better understand the operations of the ECM & Delphi system.
Visualizing it is one thing, truly understanding it is another because each & every component in the system contributes readings to the ECM to monitor, evaluate & adjust accordingly.
Came across the following publication which I figured would answer a lot of questions which less experienced wrenches don't know or understand exactly how the system works or about the overall picture when upgrading their motors & the effects of these upgrades other than it breaths & farts better.
Since I will definitely end up going to a stage 2 and possibly a stage 3 later,
I need some input of real world experiences with the:
"ThunderMax Auto Tuner"?
&
Dynojet Power Vision PV2.

What other systems, if any, has the same capabilities & can be used for stage 2 & 3 upgrades down the road?

And by the way, yes I do have a factory manual but never had the call to cracked it open, as of yet.

So, in a nut shell......

Electronic Fuel Injection Basics
In 1995, Harley-Davidson began offering electronic fuel injection (EFI) as either standard or optional equipment, and since 2007, all Harley models include EFI. That means if you own a mid-1990s or later Harley, chances are high that you have a fuel injected model. And like most Harley riders, you probably want to improve your engine's performance by installing a few performance goodies. Unlike a carbureted engine where you can turn a few screws or replace a jet in your garage to make tuning changes, an EFI engine is much more complex. Even the name, electronic fuel injection, implies some amount of complexity. With an EFI-based engine, you cannot easily tune the induction system by only twisting a screw or two. Instead, you typically need to download software fuel maps or install a new electronic "black box." And in most cases, you're also required to do some serious dyno tuning to dial in the engine's induction system. With the complexity of today's EFI, constantly changing EFI technology, and the high cost of EFI tuning equipment such as a dyno, it is usually not cost effective to tune your own EFI system. Instead, it is typically wiser to leave critical tuning to your engine builder or dyno tuner. However, having a basic understanding of EFI can save you costly surprises when making performance upgrades and help you make intelligent choices for EFI-based components. The following is an overview of the V-twin's EFI system.


Electronic Fuel Injection
In simple terms, EFI is a computer-controlled fuel delivery system. From 1995 to 2001, the factory used the Magneti-Marelli EFI system. Starting in 2001, a completely different system by Delphi Electronics system was phased into production. Today, all Harley V-twins are equipped with a Delphi system.
The factory's EFI system can be divided into four major components: electronic control module (ECM), throttle body, fuel injectors and sensors. The ECM is the brain of the system and gathers data from a handful of engine sensors. The ECM checks an information table that was programmed into its memory. The information table is often called the calibration map. Based on sensor data and the calibration map, the ECM then instructs the electro-mechanical fuel injectors when to start and how long to spray fuel into the intake tract. The ECM also controls ignition timing. The throttle body includes a butterfly valve (one for the Delphi and two for the Magneti-Marelli) that regulates airflow through the intake tract. The opening and closing of the butterfly(s) is controlled by the throttle mounted on the handlebar.
EFI Fuel Flow
Figure 1 shows a simplified view of the V-twin's EFI fuel flow. The fuel pump, which is located in the fuel tank, supplies a high-pressure flow of fuel to a fuel rail, which may be attached to the throttle body. In turn, the fuel rail provides fuel to the fuel injectors, which spray fuel into the intake tract. With the V-twin engine, the fuel injectors are normally attached to the intake manifold. A fuel pressure regulator maintains a constant fuel pressure while limiting fuel pressure to approximately 38-45 psi. The pressure regulator is connected to the intake manifold via a vacuum line. Excess fuel is returned to the fuel tank by the regulator.
TPS And MAP Systems
An EFI system determines the fuel mixture by the load placed on the engine. However, EFI systems can differ by how they sense the amount of load placed on an engine. For example, some systems are deigned to sense engine load by the amount of throttle opening. Systems that sense load by throttle position use a throttle position sensor (TPS) and are called an Alpha-N system. Harley's Magneti-Marelli system is an example of a TPS system. A second system design senses engine load by use of a MAP sensor, which determines engine load based on intake manifold vacuum. This system design is called a speed density system. Harley's current Delphi EFI is a speed density system. By monitoring intake manifold pressure, a speed density system can more accurately determine load than a system that senses throttle position.
Open-Loop Systems
We already know that the factory has used two major designs of EFI systems: throttle position sensor (1995-2001) and MAP sensor (2001-up). However, there is another major difference in how an EFI system operates: open loop (fixed map) and closed loop (variable map). An open-loop system samples data from the engine sensors, which points to a given location in the ECM's configuration map. Each map location contains fuel-injector pulse width and ignition-advance data for a certain set of sensor parameters. A change in sensor inputs points to a different location in the ECM's map, resulting in different injector pulse width and ignition-advance values. All factory EFI systems through 2005 are fixed open-loop systems.
An open-loop system works well when an engine is in relatively stock condition and the fixed map in the ECM contains values for the range of sensor inputs. But when an engine is modified, even slightly, it flows more air and requires more fuel to maintain the precise air/fuel ratio for optimum power. In this case, an open-loop system stumbles severely because sensor values fall outside the map parameters.
Closed-Loop Systems
Beginning in 2006, some Harley EFI models shipped with a closed-loop (variable map) system, and from 2007-up, all models have closed loop. A closed-loop system uses inputs from the engine sensors to point to a relative starting point in the ECM's configuration map for fuel and ignition advance. This system also uses a narrow-band oxygen sensor (O2 sensor) plumbed into each exhaust header. The oxygen sensors monitor exhaust gases for rich and lean conditions. Once the engine is up to operating temperature, the ECM adds oxygen sensor data to the relative starting point in the configuration map to arrive at a final map location for fuel-injector pulse width and ignition advance values.
Since a closed-loop system provides real-time exhaust-gas monitoring, more precise fuel and ignition advance curves are achieved. But even the factory's closed-loop system has limitations. For example, the factory closed-loop system uses narrow band O2 sensors, which means that the fuel ratio can be varied only over a narrow band or range. For improved performance, some aftermarket manufacturers offer EFI systems with wide-band O2 sensors, which are better able to handle the increased range of air/fuel ratios required by highly modified engines. Zipper's ThunderMax is such a system.
Upgrading EFI
Since the internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump, most engine performance modifications are designed to increase airflow through the engine. However, as airflow increases, fuel flow must also increase to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio for maximum performance. Although the factory's EFI system is relatively intelligent in making fuel-ratio corrections, it is also very limited due to EPA requirements. As such, even minor engine airflow increases are beyond the scope of the factory EFI system. Luckily, there are several aftermarket options capable of altering the factory's EFI fuel map for a wide range of high-performance engine combinations.
Downloadable Fuel Maps
Downloadable fuel maps are available from the factory and aftermarket manufacturers. The maps, called "ECM calibration" by the factory, are designed to provide a usable fuel curve for a specific engine combination. Downloadable maps are the most basic and simplest way to modify the factory ECM for performance engine modifications.
Add-on Modules
An add-on module, which is sometimes called a piggyback controller, can be plugged into the factory ECM's wiring harness to make slight modifications to the fuel map. Most add-on modules are a potentiometer-type device that do not require a computer for adjustment. Some include one or more base maps for certain engine/exhaust system modifications. Add-on modules are tuned using a screwdriver and allow adjustment for rpm transition points and air/fuel mixture. Pot-based devices are relatively low cost but have limitations for the range of performance engine modifications they can tune. Custom Chrome, Dynatek, Kuryakyn Products, Harley-Davidson Screamin' Eagle, Vance & Hines and others offer add-on module controllers.
Map-Based Reprogrammers
Map-based reprogrammers are engine management software programs that allow for a wider range of tuning changes to be made to the factory ECM. A software reprogrammer is typically used when building a large-displacement engine or high-performance smaller engine while retaining the factory ECM. The most popular reprogrammers are the Dynojet Power Commander and Harley-Davidson's Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner.
Dynojet's Power Commander is an add-on computer that connects in series between the factory ECM and fuel injectors. The add-on computer stores maps that can be reprogrammed with a personal computer (PC) for a wide range of modified engine combinations. Fuel maps for many engine combinations are included with the Power Commander and new maps can be downloaded from Dynojet's website.
Harley-Davidson Screamin' Eagle Super Tuner is a software map-based reprogrammer that does not require an add-on module because it has the ability to re-program the factory ECM. The Super Tuner recently superseded Harley's popular Race Tuner program and provides easier control for the air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, rpm, warm up, injector size and some sensors.
Replacement ECMs
Several aftermarket companies offer replacement ECMs. These systems usually provide a plug-and-play replacement of the stock ECM along with a proprietary software program for controlling the new ECM. Most of these systems are closed loop and use wide-band O2 sensors so they can handle a wide range of engine combinations and very large engine displacements. Some of these systems are self-tuning, such as Zipper's ThunderMax. A self-tuning system fine-tunes the fuel map for varying engine requirements and atmospheric conditions as the bike is ridden, which can save on costly and time-consuming dyno tuning. Daytona Twin Tech, BC Gerolamy, and S&S; Cycle and are a few companies offering replacement ECM systems.
Large Throttle Bodies
EFI systems use a throttle body (TB) to regulate airflow through the engine. A TB looks similar to a carburetor and has an air cleaner attached to the end of it, similar to a carburetor. But unlike a carburetor, which regulates both air and fuel, a TB only regulates air in an EFI system. With some EFI engines, performance can be gained by installing a higher-flowing throttle body. Early factory Delphi TB's have a 45mm throat. Oversize TBs are available from 48mm to 60mm and even larger. All but the largest engines generally perform well with a 50mm to 56mm TB. Some engine builders say that you cannot use too large of TB on an engine because a TB only flows air and not fuel, meaning that there is no concern for fuel separation from slow moving air in the induction tract. However, even though the TB is only flowing air, slow air velocity in the induction tract has proven to make tuning an EFI system more difficult, especially at low rpm. As such, it is recommend that intake tract air velocity should be a consideration when building an EFI engine - so don't go overboard on throttle body size.
Fuel Injectors
Some engine builders are quick to install high-flowing injectors when modifying an engine but end up disappointed with the results. Mild EFI hop ups usually don't require high-flowing injectors. Excessive injector flow can cause an engine to run rich, resulting in a hard-to-tune engine. Therefore, it is recommended to not install high-flow injectors until it is proven that the engine cannot be tuned using stock injectors.
Consider Total Cost Of EFI Upgrade
When comparing different EFI upgrades for your performance engine, be sure to consider the total cost, which includes parts, labor and dyno tuning. Some EFI upgrades are less costly initially but require much dyno tuning, while other upgrades cost more up front yet require little if any dyno tuning. Be sure to factor in all costs before making a buying decision. Additionally, it may make sense to install a more costly and capable EFI tuning module when initially making mild performance modifications and allow the engine to grow into using the module's full capabilities than to initially buy a low-cost tuning device, only to have to replace it at a later date with a more capable device when you make additional engine modifications. Regardless of whether you are building a mild or wild EFI-based engine, a knowledgeable and honest engine builder and tuner are critically important for optimizing engine performance and eliminating disappointments.

 

Very nice writeup. I suspect a lot of folks are like me and know some of this, but not all. This explains all in detail . Thx for sharing.

 

The first thing I wanted to do when I got my bike was to install a stage 1. The a/c and exhaust were pretty basic. Knowing I needed to add some fuel I went with the inexpensive "fix", which were XIEDs. That helped it to run better but I had a feeling there was more power to be gained.
On the advice of a buddy who had the identical motor and similar intake and exhaust, I got a Fuelpak. It didn't do much better than the XIEDs. Finally settled on the TMax. I installed it and went for a test spin. It took all of about 100 feet to know that this was the way I knew the bike could run. And that's before getting it dialed in with the auto tune. After running a few automap sessions it ran like a beast, compared to stock.
This was before the TTS and Powervision, so I might have chosen one of those if available but I have no regrets with the TMax.

 

I went through the same thought process as you and very happy I went with the tmax.
download the program from their site and open one of the base maps and check out all the variables that are monitored.
If you end up with it on your bike, and as above, run it through the automap and save the resultant modified map, open it in the program, and see what it's doing within the efi system.
I chose it specifically because I was planning mods to the bike over a period of time. These changes would require multiple trips to a dyno shop and there are none local to me.
I ended up with a great running bike, the continuously updates the map depending on not only mods, but season, elevation, fuel quality, etc.
There is also a good (more than one?) thread in the efi section of this forum about the tmax.
I don't know about the other brands that are available. Would I buy the tmax again? Yes.

 

I am running a ThunderMax. I was not happy with whole dyno tune process on my last bike.

I installed it when we did the stage 1. Loaded a close map and let it do it's thing. About every 1000 miles I check the changes it has made, save the changes, and accept them to start the process over.

We I added cams, all I had to do was load a new, close map and start the whole thing over. The bike runs absolutely great and never misses a beat.

At one point I thought my mileage was little low so I upped the AFR at cruising RPMs by about .3. This added about 2-3 mpg. I currently get high 30s around town and about 43 with the bike fully loaded on the highway.

I plan to update my unit to "Wave Tuning" this spring.

I admit that good dyno tune could probably get me 2-4 more hp / tq, but then again a bad one could lose me more than that. (Ask me how I know.) The bike runs so good that I don't really care....

 

I had my bike dyno tuned with TTS and it runs great. But the TMax caught my eye as I do so many changes to my bike I dont want to have to dyno it every time I change an exhaust, air flow or cams or whatever.
Ive heard from various tuners to stay away from the auto tunes like tmax, but I keep hearing from real world users that it simply works great.

 

Of course, less money in their pockets.

 

When I bought my tmax at bike week 2014 at first the bike ran great, but then started throwing codes. So I called chris at cycle solutions, which is where I purchsed it, and he told me they had found a clitch in the map. Contacted tmax and downloaded a new map on my laptop then hoked up to the tmax. Downloaded the new software and that took care of all of my problems. Would definitely buy another one.

 

Maybe this will help:

http://harley.uk.net/doku.php?id=tech:espfi:fueling

 

Devin(DK) uses the Power Vision bike on his stage 4 bike. He is 100% satisfied with the PV. One of the many great things about the Power Vision is it comes to with a Custom Map, for Your Bike, already installed in it. You can plug it in, load the new tune into your bike, unplug it, and be riding with the New Tune in 5 minutes.

Hope this helps you out

Kelsey