If you get any spark knock with that map on post 12 your ve table is too low in the area that is knocking. The rear VE table usually runs 2 to 6% richer/larger numbers than the front to aid in cooling especially in low rpm below 2000. In the cruise to wide open throttle area I generally run 3% more VE starting at 3500 from 10% throttle to 100% all the way from 3500 up to highest rpm. That keeps it from popping when changing gears in a hurry. Another note the cruise area on a throttle position based map is 10 to 20% columns when above 2000 and 10% to 5% when below 2000. Keep in mind that the VE from 15% in what ever area to 100% needs to increase 10 to 20% progressively. if in the 15% column at 85VE you need to increase to around 100 by the time you are in the 100% column. What I am saying is don't leave the numbers in the 20 to 80 column near the same as the 15% column then jump up from the 80 to 100 column. This is for a stage 1 tune cams are different. You will get ping when doing moderate acceleration if you do. You may not hear it, but if you run a data log which you can't with the SERT you will see it. The ecm can remove around 8 degrees of timing if the spark knock system is working correctly.
If you really want to learn more about all this download the Power Vision Software Win/PV and the manual and play with it some. It is free. You can actually download a map for your bike and the data from your map will probably copy and paste straight into it. You can learn to use the compare and smooth feature and make corrections to your map and put it right back in. The TTS software is downloadable also and both have excellent manuals and map explanation software. The TTS canned maps are real close and you can find the one for your bike and make changes to it then copy and paste and you are in business. You can answer your own questions then. Be prepared to spend lots of hrs. though.

 

Thanks for all of you help.

 

I have another question for you. All of the spark maps I find for my bike and setup have the highest spark advance in the general area of 40kPa and 3000 RPM no matter if I look at SERT, TTS, or PV maps. The maps you have sent in this Thread have the highest advance at 15kPa and 6000 RPM. Others have supplied maps with the same setup as yours. Can you shed some light on why they differ and which would be better?

 

Some have as much as 45 Degrees in the 3000 area. I have had some ping on some engines in this area so I just reduce it on all or most maps. Where it really comes into play is in the heat. The hotter they get the more likely to ping. On PV you can reducing timing in these areas with different tables as temp rises.
As far as the 15 kpa and 6000 rpms being high that is a function of smoothing the maps in Power Vision. If you are running 6000 rpms at 15% load you have accomplished something. The large numbers are there to keep from making unwanted changes when smoothing the map.
Look at some maps for newer models. They have much different timing maps to the one you have stock. You may want to knock the top right 80 and 100 column and first two rows down to 1 or 0.
The reason the timing is so low on the factory maps is to improve emmissions. The more timing you run the richer the timing to a point. Don't know if you were around back in the 70's, but the auto manufacturers started locking the distributors where you couldn't advance or retard the timing. Same reasoning. I like to max out the timing to the point of deminishing returns then back off until it doesn't change the performance. The point of max is when you can't stop the spark knock by richening the mixture. I use the Power Vision data logs to determine that. I have lots of time on my hands. I then reduce the timing to stop the spark knock detection by the DATA LOG. Then I reduce the timing another couple of degrees in that area. No need to run more timing than needed for power gains. This is mostly done from the cruise area up. The low speed area is done more by ride ability. Smooth and strong as possible.

 

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense. What I'm trying to understand is I see a trend while looking at older as well as new spark maps. Regardless of the year, max spark advance for the softail family is in the 30kPa/3000RPM area whereas the touring family is the 15kPa/6000RPM area. I'm just trying to understand why canned maps are designed this way. Does it have something to do with the location of max torque? or more specifically the cam?

 

All Twin Cam 96 and 103 in what ever model use the same cam up to the 14's. They do have different size injectors is only difference in engine other than the A and B model differences. This difference is the B in softails is internally balanced and ridged mounted and the A in Dyna and Touring is rubber mounted The difference in the timing at low load levels would be a guess. Being lighter the Dyna's and Softails probably use the low timing in low load levels to stop some of the engine braking to prevent the rear wheel from locking during braking. I have added too much fuel in the low load area on my Flhtk and it will definitely slow down when you let up or down shift. Take the fuel away and it coasts more easily. Just a guess. Some of the early model touring have low timing and fuel in the low load area also. Maybe someone else has a theory or knows why. Boy is that a loaded question.

 

Lets see is anybody chimes in. I might have to start a new thread with that question.

 

It really doesn't matter to me as it works either way. Not anything going on in that area except decel. I have run across some of the older touring that were in the 35 degree area in the 15% column above 3500 rpms. You may call Harley and see if someone there can tell you.LOL

 

Good luck with that!

 

2007 Roadking,SE air/2into1 supertrapp TTS

Had this bike dyno tuned last summer, It pinged in temperatures above 90 degrees, tuner was'nt to help full…. I thought the timing map it was tuned at was quite aggressive (CPZ176-03) So I went looking for a map close to my bike and kinda averaged it out…Bike preforms well and I was able to get rid or the ping in the heat…
I ran across the map you guys helped out for the softtail and I see you guys are up on this topic and was hoping you might take a look at my map and tell me what you think…..thanks