I have an 07 Softail Custom with a SE Air Cleaner and V&H Straight Shots. I've used the SERT 4.77 to tune the VE's. They are almost spot on. I'm not to comfortable with the timing maps used in the 176AE104. Plus at higher RPM's, the engine feels sluggish. My guess is the timing. Anybody have timing maps that work well with this setup?

 

Here is a .jpeg that shows a timing map that will give you an idea. It was taken from a SEPST map. I have the SERT software but don't have the map you are talking about, so can't send the whole map. You will need to save the attachment to your computer then change the .docx to .jpeg or .jpg to open it. It was too large to send as a jpeg. The map is going to have a little different scale probably on the horizontal axis. Have used this basic timing map lots of times and works well. Much better than stock. If you have a problem shoot me a PM with your email and I will send my email address and you can send your map if you like and will fix it up for you.

 

Thanks for the reply and the map. Do you have any concerns with the high advance in the higher kpa mid/high RPM range? I've read allot info saying less advance is needed as the RPM goes up. Kind of the reverse of what you might think.

 

That is absolutely correct in your reading about pulling better with lower timing in the higher rpm 100% load area. The map I sent was straight from Harley SEPST map. It will work fine. I have done lot of data logging and have lowered timing in power area to where it started effecting the power. Enclosed is the current map I am running on my bike with Power Vision. It is lower than the one in the Harley SEPST in the 100% load area. The stock timing in the area from 1500 to 2500 is a main contributing factor to the flat spots when running performance cams. You are not likely to have any ping/spark knock in either of these maps in the 100% area as long as you are rich enough. If you do richen that area 2 to 5% and see if it stops.

What you have to pay close attention to is the VE table. On your map and the one I am currently running the VE uses throttle position and the Spark uses load/Kpa MAP for the horizontal axis. For instance cruise on throttle position is around 15% and on Kpa it is around 50%. The only scale that is the same is the 100% column. The first column on each is not the same as the idle on a Kpa map is from 20 to 40 with stock cams and all over the scale with large duration cams. I have seen it bounce from 20 to 100% on the logs. That is why I prefer the Throttle position for VE tables. Can't always have that as you are limited to what the tuning software for the ecm is set up for. The Power Vision for the 14 and 15 models has both TPS and MAP VE tables. You can run either you chose. The SEPST still uses just one which is TPS on 14 up. If set up right either one works just fine. Probably more info than needed to fool with.

I use the Power Vision and run datalogs and check the spark knock that the ecm detects and removes the timing before you actually hear the ping. It is not totally fool proof as it doesn't know if it is a lean condition or too much spark advance. Most of the time it is just too lean.

 

Thanks. I'll take a close look at your current map and compare with my current. Another question I have is your decel popping. I have alot of popping from 2500 and below. I've decreased my AFR in the hopes to snuff out the flame in the exhaust. I see your running at 40 degrees in the 15 kpa column. I was considering increasing my advance at 2500 and below to burn the fuel sooner in the hopes to eliminate any fuel heading down the exhaust and popping which I believe would allow my me to lean my fuel back to normal in that area. Last question I have is starting on a hot motor. Do you have kick back with the 24 degrees at 750 and 1000 in the 15 kpa. My current map was 20 and I dropped it to 15 in those cells which helped alot.

 

Here are some screen shots that may help explain. I have one more screen shot of the ve table that I will put in another reply. As for the cranking it doesn't use the spark table for starting. It uses a fixed table for closed throttle. At least it has a separate table for closed throttle timing and it is usually 25 degrees. Notice the cranking fuel table and change yours. This will help with the hot cranking. the afr table isn't likely to help with decel popping. That is what the decel table is for. It doesn't hurt to run the ve tables very rich in the closed throttle area as only time you are there is when at closed throttle. It will cause more engine braking.
The enclosed attachments marked with the .docx need to change to .png to open. They were too large to attach as jpg files.

 

Here is the VE table. Sure would be easier if you would attach your map. I have very few of the SERT maps. Have lots of SEPST, TTS, Power Vision, and PCV files. If you had rather not attach it you can send me a pm with email address and I will look at it and send you what I think will work for you. In fact the screen shots I attached are from a SEPST map that I am putting on a 2009 Softail tomorrow with same setup as yours. I will know if it needs any adjustments after tomorrow. All the maps I do are run on bikes. Do they all work just right the first time no. Some do.
I suspect the timing that is used for starting is in the 100% kpa range which is very low. When you turn the engine off the vacuum is at 0 so the ecm thinks it is at 100% load. That may not make since, but I monitor and do data logs a lot with Power Vision mounted to the handle bars and when engine is turned off the %Kpa is 100% and throttle position is 0. Can't actually monitor while cranking as the data port is disabled while cranking or atleast the PV looses power and has to reboot. When idling the %Kpa is around 20 to 30 and with cams it jumps around from 30 to 100% due to reversion from the larger overlap causing poor vacuum at idle. Just a little tid bit there.

 

First, let me say thank you for helping me. Second, if your having trouble attaching files because they are too big, do this. Go here http://www.cutepdf.com/ and download Cute pdf Writer. When you install this, is gives your PC a virtual printer which prints to a PDF file. When your in SERT, SEPTS, etc... and you want to print a map, select print and instead of using your default printer, select CutePDF from the dropdown list and hit print. Another window will open and all you do is give it a file name and where to save.

Now, I have attached my current setup with the SERT without using your Spark Map. The VE tables were tuned using SERT Data Logging with O2 turned on. I did 8 runs over a few weeks. After each run, I used a software called My Tune and imported a DM2 file to create new VE values. I'm only using narrowband sensors so I'm only effectively tuning the lower end of the map. The AFR map is from Andy Whittle and seems to work fine for now.

The decel popping was being tuned out by dropping the AFR in the 1st column from the 14's to as low as 13.2. It was better but only somewhat. Then I read more about how the flame burns the fuel and if I increase the advance in the first column from 1125 down to 2500 where my problem is, I can burn the fuel up sooner and possible eliminate the fuel getting into the hot pipes and decel popping. Well, I put your 1st spark map in and IT WORKS. As you can see, my advance is 20 at 2500 and below until I get to 1000. Then I drop to 10 for hot start kickback.

Now, the other maps you have attached are strange looking. The AFR map is much different than what I think it should be. Your lean as load and RPM go up. I would think you'd want more fuel, especially if your VE table are 100+ in those areas.

I'm tempted to use all your maps you sent and see what happens. What are your thoughts on mine compared to what you're using on the 09?

 

Forgot the attachment..

 

I'm assuming you know that SEPST cals can't be loaded using v4.77 original "old" SERT ?
"Cutting and pasting" would be all you could do

Kuryakyn did have TTS cals in MT6 available for download on their "free TTS downloads" webpage , but when I last looked all the MT6 files had been pulled ? Their own Dyno cals.

They did have one entitled " 2007-2009 Softail AC and V&H straights.MT6 " that I used successfully here in Australia a number of times. I'll still have that if you can't get it from Kuryakyn direct. Shoot me an non forum email address and I'll get it to you.

I used it to "stop the popping" on bike for a few mates with straight V&H systems , and on other types like Samson true duals and the like. The bikes all pulled well with those cals also !