Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel InjectionNeed advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.
See what he has your AFR table set at, if possible do a screen shot and post it here. If he has your o2's off and the VE's are rich in the cruising ranges that could be it. The surging is most definitely in the tune
This is the AFR table before the Dyno tune that I sent him. I looked at the VE tables and they aren't showing anything that would cause this.
If his bike cruises closer to the 30%Kpa and the VE's are rich there that could cause the poor fuel economy. Try putting it in closed loop in the 30 column there and see what happens.
It's kind've hard to tell what the VE's should be without sampling AF
If his bike cruises closer to the 30%Kpa and the VE's are rich there that could cause the poor fuel economy. Try putting it in closed loop in the 30 column there and see what happens.
It's kind've hard to tell what the VE's should be without sampling AF
Here is the front VE. It doesn't look out of line to me. What would you change the 30 AFR to. It is 14.1 now would you go to 14.4 or less or more. This is from the map I sent. Couldn't snip entire table too big for forum.
Here are the screen shots of the AFR and VE tables.
Front VE Table
Rear VE table
As for the IVO and OVC the mechanic that installed the cams is a racer as well. If that is accomplished through adjusting the pushrods correctly I would think that he did that. The only way I can be certain would be to tear into the cam chest (I'll talk to him first though).
I have to say it again. Mac was almost on the money with his maps just going through data logging and emails.
Here is the front VE. It doesn't look out of line to me. What would you change the 30 AFR to. It is 14.1 now would you go to 14.4 or less or more. This is from the map I sent. Couldn't snip entire table too big for forum.
I would go to at least 14.4. The idea is to turn the o2 sensors on and let them do their job, the VE's is a guessing game without sampling the air fuel. They look like they are "blended" but that doesn't really tell us anything.
...As for the IVO and OVC the mechanic that installed the cams is a racer as well. If that is accomplished through adjusting the pushrods correctly I would think that he did that...
No, the IVO & IVC is not accomplished mechanically. They are adjustments that need to be made through the ECM.
And as suggested above, unless the tuner used an external sniffer to sample the exhaust for each cylinder, the VE's may or may not be accurate. Your map shows AFR's are all open loop settings.
No, the IVO & IVC is not accomplished mechanically. They are adjustments that need to be made through the ECM.
And as suggested above, unless the tuner used an external sniffer to sample the exhaust for each cylinder, the VE's may or may not be accurate. Your map shows AFR's are all open loop settings.
Yes the tuner used external sniffer. Was recently replaced. He actually went over that with me.
Pine can you tell me where to look at the numbers that affect the IVO and IVC, I have not heard that before and want to learn about that.
No, the IVO & IVC is not accomplished mechanically. They are adjustments that need to be made through the ECM.
And as suggested above, unless the tuner used an external sniffer to sample the exhaust for each cylinder, the VE's may or may not be accurate. Your map shows AFR's are all open loop settings.
Can you explain what IVO and IVC is. I think you are refering to a setting in TTS. The power Vision and SEPST doesn't have that adjustment. In the TTS it is a number for Intake open number like 20 open would be open setting of 4 and the intake closes at 40 would be 3. That is actual numbers for TW777. Not sure what it changes but I always make it on the TTS.
I know most people once they do a performance upgrade go out and give the bike a heap of throttle
The thing at moment is to use the indicator/sympton which is present now and that is the spark plug, as Mac suggested get some Harley plugs, ride and evaluate
Here are the screen shots of the AFR and VE tables.
Front VE Table
Rear VE table
As for the IVO and OVC the mechanic that installed the cams is a racer as well. If that is accomplished through adjusting the pushrods correctly I would think that he did that. The only way I can be certain would be to tear into the cam chest (I'll talk to him first though).
I have to say it again. Mac was almost on the money with his maps just going through data logging and emails.
Take the AFR tables from 1500 to 3000 and from 30kpa to 60 kpa and set them at 14.4 that will turn on your o2 sensors and allow the ecm to make minor adjustments while you ride, that should help your economy.
A bike is tuned to calibrate the ECM to the engine mods, the 2 main ways this is achieved is eith by dyno tuning or "autotuning". I'll give a quick 5 cent explanation of them for people that don't know what's going on.
Dyno tuning: When I tune a bike on my dyno, the first thing I do is set the AFR tables to all 13. The next step is to calibrate the VE tables to meet my desired goal of 13.0:1 air fuel. In the bike here the VE tables are Throttle position vs. RPM so that means I have to sample the air fuel (by sniffing the exhaust) at the differn't throttle positions listed across the top of the graph. So basically i'll make a series of passes holding the throttle at all the RPM's. When I get done with the sampling i'll view the air fuel line in the dyno software and make corrections to the VE tables and then sample it again. I will continue this untill I achieve my goal of 13.0:1. Each cylinder is done separately. OK, so now the ECM knows how much fuel to add to achieve our goal of 13.0:1. Now we can go back in and change our AFR tables to where we want them in the specific ranges. There is more to it than this, I won't get into the ignition tables or any of that. I can post a sample of how I set mine up when I get to the shop, I don't have one on this computer.
Auto tuning (Smarttune, Vtune ETC.) are all pretty much the same, they collect data from the bike using the o2 sensors for VE and other sensors for ignition etc. The main difference is the o2 sensors have to be turned on (closed loop) in order for the ECM to collect data, to turn them on the AFR tables have to be set to 14.6:1 on bikes with narror band (18mm) sensors and above 14.4:1 on bikes with wide band (14mm) sensors.
11-25-2014, 07:38 PM
