I hope this is in the right space for this thread. I've got a bit going on with this, but this seems like a good place to start. I have a few questions, but mainly, I'd like to get an opinion of the tune and some advice on whether or not I should get a second opinion. Actually, a third opinion, since you guys are gonna be the second!

I've read through "Manufacturer dyno claims, dyno tests, tuning, seat of the pants feel, & questions" and really enjoyed it. I've gotten a lot of information from this forum and really appreciate the manner in which this group conducts itself with what may seem like simple concepts to those in the know.

Ok, ok, my post.

So, I'm riding a 2014 Ultra Classic. I've just installed a set of Cobra Power Pro headers, the high flow kit for the stock air filter cover, and I already had the Python Predator 3.5" mufflers. The mufflers were installed at the 1k service, and I really like them. I bought the Screamin' Eagle tuner and let the dealer have at it. My dyno numbers are below.



After this is said and done, the dealer indicates I'd get better numbers by changing the mufflers; these are too restrictive. I'm not sure what stock numbers are, I've seen anywhere from 64 to 74 listed, including some dyno runs from various forums, and on the Harley website. But, the dealer is adamant that I can get to mid 80s on horsepower and up to 105 ft-lbs of torque if I were only to spend another grand on parts and service. If we're starting at 64HP, I'm up 22% already and (according to my dealer) I can expect another 10% from a simple muffler change and another dyno session. Does that sound accurate, feasible, or otherwise make sense? That probably comes off a little sarcastic, sorry, but my main concern is to be sure my setup is tuned well to avoid any sort of problems that I may have read about like the tune being too lean.

I'm wondering what anyone else thinks of this situation? In your experience, should I consider another set of mufflers? Another tuner?

[Hmm, while proof-reading this, I've been going over the numbers in the DYNO bagger thread. Looks like I'm pretty well shy of what I should be getting, and it seems the dealer understands the same thing. Oh well, onward.]

I was thinking about getting the competition baffles for the Predators. They are a low cost option to try out, and at 2.5 inches, they have a 25% larger diameter. I have emailed Python to ask about what I might be able to expect, but haven't heard back at this point. After reading the other posts here, I decided to see if I could even get the baffles off without a great deal of effort or the possibility of damaging the mufflers. No luck, they're wedged in there really well. And what's this? While messing around, I took a yard stick and put it through the muffler. Lo and behold, they're straight through! Here's a question - how can straight through mufflers be too restrictive?

My thoughts are a little discombobulated about this. I should have expected about 84 HP and 104 TQ, but I'm not close to that. At least, not as near as I can tell. After reading Jim's thread, I know that dyno numbers are just kind of arbitrary - you can have a happy dyno and a stingy dyno, but what that means for me, I don't know. Unfortunately, I didn't get the stock run I asked for, so I don't have anything to compare it to.

What do you guys think my next step here should be if I'm interested in "getting the most" out of the upgrade? Find another tuner? Go with the bigger mufflers (Cobra Race Pro slip-ons are being recommended)? What about the straight through muffler I have now, can that really be too restrictive? Seems like I read that another member beat the cap out of the end of his Pythons. If so, why is mine missing? If not, what's the deal with them being too restrictive to the tune of 7 HP and swift kick worth of torque?

I do like the new setup, actually. It sounds really good, the heat coming off of that CAT is gone, and it looks great. I can't really feel a difference in the power, or not much, anyway, but that could just be me.

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all feedback, either on the situation or tips for future posts!

 

So, riding home tonight, I'm not convinced this thing is running right. It's got some pull, but it sounds a little like it's out of sync or something. And the gas mileage is pretty terrible, even factoring in that I probably did quite a bit of playing around with this first tank. I was getting 42 MPG before all the changes, including different fuel. I went to a higher octane fuel because the engine was pinging at 91 (no ethanol) fuel. With that, the mileage dropped to 39. Today it was 32 after my first tank post upgrade.


No comments, maybe this will become my diary thread, ha ha ha.

 

Numbers look alright to me. As you are finding out you don't ride that piece of paper. Tune sounds off if it's pinging and fuel milage drops. Dyno sheet doesn't show the quality of the tune.

 

Thanks, LoneWolf.

I agree with you, the numbers aren't bad, and I certainly don't ride the paper. The biggest improvement is with the heat, I really did not enjoy riding last summer nearly as much I will this summer. I was mainly looking for opinions or experience with a 3.5 inch pipe being too restrictive, and if anyone else has the Predator slip on with the center cap missing.

I'm heading to Florida next month, and I hear tell that the police will stop you and insert a stick into your muffler to check to be sure it is not straight through. If this is a fact, then my mufflers are illegal, and I want to be prepared and/or approach Python about it.

 

So, I just wanted to update this thread to keep this situation "all in one place."

We took the trip to Florida a couple weeks ago and I was disgusted with the gas mileage the bike is now getting. 28 MPG, on average, and I was making the group stop at around 100-125 miles. At around a quarter tank, while they still had a half to go, we'd have to find fuel. Now, we were riding at 75 and I was using my cruise to control the pace. I would have expected the best numbers of everyone, especially with a "tuned" bike and the use of the cruise control. Very disappointed.

Also, I've noticed a strong smell of fuel when I'm starting the bike and often while idling at a red light or in traffic, plus I'm getting quite a bit of backfiring. My assumption is that the bike is running really rich, but I'm not very versed in all of it, to be perfectly frank.

I've made plans to bring the bike back to HD this weekend and let them have it while I'm out on a trip. I'm in hopes they will take the time and make it right, if they even can. I intend to remind them that everyone who hears my bike backfire, or rides with me and has to stop half again as much for gas, asks me where it was tuned. Either way, I'm going to get something done about it. I'm really tempted to scrap the Cobra pipes, throw on a set of true dual headers and get a really high flow air cleaner system and see if that leans the bike out enough to correct the problem. Only tempted, though, at this point. Might even consider the Competition baffles from Python, but I'm not sure I can get the stock baffles out of the pipes by now. But, for this moment, it's going to be the dealer's problem.

We've got a local guy who loves to toss in a Thundermax ECM and modify the exhaust with larger O2 sensors, so this is a consideration. I hate to keep pouring money into this particular upgrade, but I'm not very happy with the bike as it is now. Power and torque notwithstanding, the gas mileage sucks, and the backfiring is just downright embarrassing. I haven't yet, but I'll be doing some forum research on the Thundermax.

I've decided I don't want the Cobra mufflers - if I go with anything else, I'm thinking the CFR or Freedom exhaust will be my thing.

I'll update the post for posterity after I get my bike back next week and put some miles on it.

 

All tunes are not the same. Depending on the needs of the rider and the ability of both the tuning program and the guy making the adjustments, anything can happen.

It is unfortunate that many tunes are for max hp and tq but forget that the bike is hardly ridden at that end of the map.

If you can smell fuel then it's probably running way too rich. Until you are able to either see the settings or obtain a new set of data, not much can be done.


The system needs a certain amount of back pressure to operate well. That's one piece to the puzzle.

And a higher flow air cleaner will get you nothing. A motor can only move so much air (with or without an air cleaner). At this point, don't waste your time or money on another air cleaner.

Larger sensors means wide band. Again, not necessary as the narrow band sensors will serve most applications quite well.

And installing the T/Max is simply a band-aid IMHO. You may need nothing more then a proper tune to set the VE's and timing. Both set correctly will pay great dividends.

Seriously, find someone that understands the system and YOUR needs. It's possible and will keep you from chasing your tail.