thanks hardtail this info is great really helps understanding the ecm

 

Looks like that is for straight gasoline. Where are you getting that at the pump in STL area? What are you seeing for typical EGT during normal cruise on a HD engine? Have you ever put a EGT on a Harley? What about pressure? How does that affect the sensor output? How does AFR affect EGT during CL operation?


I don't see how you can bring up one cheery picked piece without bringing up all. How does temp and pressure effect a WB? Does it actually affect them more? Yep. He will start singing another song if you bring up those Bosch spec sheets. Speaking of which. Who puts out that chart? Did you make it? Did Bosch? A manufacture of a device for WB's? Pretty vague but doesn't show why you can't hit a target of .877.


What does DJ call out for their limit with the Vision? What do they recommend as the rich's target to set for CL operation? Is it .798?

 

Something to keep in mind is how and what the ECM is doing with the voltage input from the sensor. If you apply a sensor voltage to the CLB table. That becomes the switching point. That is what the number is. Anything higher than this number and ECM is in rich mode. A lower number is in lean mode. It isn't trying to hold the voltage target. It is holding it with in a range around the target. This is Delphi. Our world or car world. This is how it works.


The accuracy of sensors is brought up a lot. Both for WB's and NB's. When and what becomes good enough for what we are doing with them? A sensor that isn't accurate isn't accurate. I have no argument there. Is it 1% off? 5% off? How does sensor placement affect the accuracy? All the specs for the WB's are based on using the sensor as Bosch dictates. Are there any devices on the market that follow this? No. What does that do as for as accuracy? Instead the conversation tends to go toward scare tactics and misinformation.


If I am targeting a lambda value of .979 and my WB's are verifying at .976 to .981 at cruise. Is that close enough?

 

Andy I can set WOT with narrow band 02's, I not getting into this 6 year old argument with you because you fail to understand what you have been told about NB and WB sensors. Bottom line the WB are TOO slow to control the fuel changes. This means you end up with an unsatisfactory tune up in my standards....but.....it might be just fine for you.

 

Here is the real world response time of a wideband.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/Wideband%...nse%20Time.png

.180 sec is not bad in my book. And that is from a wideband that is in the collector. It would be even faster 6" from the head.

Andy

 

Can you reproduce that, or is this a one time screen shot? I would think that if you could. It would not just be a simple screen shot. It would be a log showing that response over and over.


BUT lets look at that .180 of response time and compare it to what? Narrow bands? At .180 of a second. That goes into a second 5.6 times, but at 2000rpm we are seeing 16.6 firing cycles every second. You missed 11 spark events. 3000rpm has 25 engine spark events. Now you missed 19.4 of them. A narrow band wont miss any of these at 3000 or even 4000 because they are fast enough to read each and every fire event.


We could even get into how many frames a second the devices on the HD market record at? How fast is the 1850 port? How fast is the CANBus port?

 

And that is exactly we all use filters, statistics, probability, and long term fuel trims. Some people just don't realize this.

Andy

 

Typical troll answer. Can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle with BS. It is vague and leaves the illusion of having knowledge that others don't have, but in reality. It is just more of his BS.

 

What's wrong with you people, I ask one question and it became a pissing match between some people. All I wanted to know, is it a waste of time to change my map to cool my motor down. One more time, my VE tables were dyno tune they are very closed to what they should be. Will changing my AFR or Lambda (in my book they are the same thing) from 14. To 13.8 or if you use the Lambda values .959 to .940 will this cool my engine down or is it a waste of time.

 

As one of the first responders said before the troll took over, the small fuel ratio change will make very little difference. Timing changes will probably be more beneficial.