Push Starting an EFI bike
#12
10-03-2008, 01:49 AM
#14
10-03-2008, 08:33 AM
Elite HDF Member
If you mean kickstarter... first no way I'd want to kick start 96cubes
Second... same thing as pushing: not enough juice to the fuel pump? no start.
As for jump starting.... I'd get one of those portable/ rechargeable 'power station' type to jump start with.... car battery at last resort, with the donor car NOT running.
But again, I'd say if the battery was not completely dead, just down enough that it can't spin the motor, then pushing is viable.
Only my opinion of course, and can be overridden by those with greater HD knowledge than me.
Second... same thing as pushing: not enough juice to the fuel pump? no start.As for jump starting.... I'd get one of those portable/ rechargeable 'power station' type to jump start with.... car battery at last resort, with the donor car NOT running.
But again, I'd say if the battery was not completely dead, just down enough that it can't spin the motor, then pushing is viable.
Only my opinion of course, and can be overridden by those with greater HD knowledge than me.
#15
10-03-2008, 10:27 AM
#16
10-04-2008, 07:32 AM
I've never seen any bike damaged by jump starting with the donor engine running. I do it with the engine running every time. I think it's just a rumor. A running car charges at 14.4 volts. A running motorcycle charges at 14.4 volt. same same. The motorcycle will only draw as many amps as it needs to do the job, it won't hurt it. Just make sure you don't drive the motorcycle with the weak battery any high speeds or long distance until you get the battery charged back up with a battery charger. The bike isn't designed to charge a completely dead battery, if you try, it could overload and overheat the stator/regulator.
Hogdoctor
Hogdoctor
#17
10-04-2008, 08:09 AM
What was funny was there was more than one volunter pushing the bike.
It was also interesting watching those two trucks with trailers trying to get out of the parking lot with that bike in the way.
#19
10-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Elite HDF Member
I've never seen any bike damaged by jump starting with the donor engine running. I do it with the engine running every time. I think it's just a rumor. A running car charges at 14.4 volts. A running motorcycle charges at 14.4 volt. same same. The motorcycle will only draw as many amps as it needs to do the job, it won't hurt it. Just make sure you don't drive the motorcycle with the weak battery any high speeds or long distance until you get the battery charged back up with a battery charger. The bike isn't designed to charge a completely dead battery, if you try, it could overload and overheat the stator/regulator.
Hogdoctor
Hogdoctor
..... humorous actually, considering my profession, that I forgot in this situation also... you can't 'push' current, it has to be pulled.
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arnold_schachat (09-23-2022)
#20
04-08-2015, 05:41 PM
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Great post. Would an '11 FatBoy 96B have cam sensor?
True for a 2011 FLSTF ? No cam sensor? Seems crazy to me for HD to be relying on speed changes due compression. Like tail wagging an inconsistent dog! What dies a cam sensor cost: $1.50 or so? Why they in 2000 did away with sensor?
Glens sayz: "each cylinder having its own coil doesn't have to mean that the coil only fires on the compression stroke. Wasting a harmless spark on the exhaust stroke or a half-shot of fuel then (which itself wouldn't be wasted at any rate) is a lot simpler to implement than monitoring the acceleration rates of the crank speed pickup. "
The HD twin cam is a true single fire ignition and injection system. Nothing is wasted.
Besides, a half shot of fuel on the backside of a closed intake valve will quickly drop out of it's atomized state back into a dribble and not burn completely,, the EPA would never allow that. It's fine for Lucas injection, but not for the Harley.
While it's true that the ECM knows the position of the flywheel at all times, it does NOT have any direct knowledge of the camshaft's position without the cam sensor which was eliminated for several reasons. The engine has to figure it out when you start cranking the engine. If it cannot figure it out, then you get no spark. This is why if you pull the spark plugs on a twin cam and try to test the spark cranking the engine over, sometimes
you won't get any spark.. there's no compression so the module can't figure out which coil to fire. It is absolutely pertinent, because you might have the same situation when trying to push start a bike.
My sources? Many trips to Juneau ave in Milwaukee for factory training, Many years experience troubleshooting these systems for a living. Any documentation is classified and copyrighted, so I can't divulge any of it. You'll just have to trust me.
Hogdoctor
The HD twin cam is a true single fire ignition and injection system. Nothing is wasted.
Besides, a half shot of fuel on the backside of a closed intake valve will quickly drop out of it's atomized state back into a dribble and not burn completely,, the EPA would never allow that. It's fine for Lucas injection, but not for the Harley.
While it's true that the ECM knows the position of the flywheel at all times, it does NOT have any direct knowledge of the camshaft's position without the cam sensor which was eliminated for several reasons. The engine has to figure it out when you start cranking the engine. If it cannot figure it out, then you get no spark. This is why if you pull the spark plugs on a twin cam and try to test the spark cranking the engine over, sometimes
you won't get any spark.. there's no compression so the module can't figure out which coil to fire. It is absolutely pertinent, because you might have the same situation when trying to push start a bike.
My sources? Many trips to Juneau ave in Milwaukee for factory training, Many years experience troubleshooting these systems for a living. Any documentation is classified and copyrighted, so I can't divulge any of it. You'll just have to trust me.
Hogdoctor
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