HeHeHeHe... I like my custom header paint job, if I do say so myself...

I lost the pix where I had two laptops and a monitor on the bike, along with a Vacuum pump with wide bands in Herko Blocks, vacuum hoses, and narrow bands in one pipe... all going down the road. Looked like a science project for sure. I was just destined to buy and own a Dyno.... for my own edification if nothing else.

Jack's pipe has the same flaws my D&D did. Look at the rear pipe... too long of a bung and even when shaved down, the sensor would still not reach the gasses. Also, the bungs are tending towards the inside of a bend. One would not need to be so close to the port like my pipes, but a little down and on the OUTSIDE of the bend would be great. Just replacing the angle bungs with flat bungs... in the same spots, won't cut it either... the O2s would have a serious problem with pointing upwards.

 

HA....I kinda noticed the disclaimer when you posted the pic with the weld. "I have since bought a TIG welder" yup we all looked like that at one time.

Yeah I have trolled for a couple of years and asked a few questions over at HTT, but I feel real stupid over there sometimes...LOL One of the main reasons I bought a TTS was because of Mayors 48H tune, I think I have read that a dozen times.

I was thinking even before I started this that the bungs were bad, which is why I already have replacements waiting. So I'll pull the head pipes off tomorrow and weld the new bungs on. i read the specs from bosch that was posted but was to deep for me, , @ 6" from head, nothing below horizontal, and never on inside of bend.

 

So just finished this up, heres the data runs before and after


BEFORE
https://app.box.com/s/4kdi7izyqruxp9gh1xti
AFTER
https://app.box.com/s/a5jzx5qfqp610ocpbcoz

HERES WHAT i DID AND HOW DEEP THEY ARE NOW





Deep Enuf?

 

well its 40 deg here today and cold as ****, did a quick low rpm and low tps run and then went for a ride and froze my ***** off, very short, but did notice real quick blues on the histogram. So I "think" the O2's are reading better.

https://app.box.com/s/55njrorfts07yz4pao89

The first was to strickly get low idle, set to 750rpm, and get those cells locked down






DAMN F'N COLD...ten min of freezing
w/o monitor

https://app.box.com/s/9sp0whwrc2p3aenbxzeu

 

Those will work, Jack.

That is the secret and the fix for tuning bikes with the 18mm O2 sensors. I agree with your HTT statements, too. Basically, the only person that does NOT treat a newbie like crap IS Mayor. I even talked to him a few nights ago.

Here, on HDF, we all strive to help newbies and old hands alike. Dude... I need help at times and the first folks I contact are Wiz and Lonewolf.

I like that hard bag look on a Softie, too.

From my own experience, all of the v-tunes from the past will now be junk for you. Since you are reading things better, you will need to go out and v-tune the crap out of it and start pulling the tune in properly.

Here's the 'plus' to fixing the bungs... in the beginning with TTS (the very first flash tuner with an auto tuning kind of feature), a LOT of folks were seeing their tunes 'drifting' and after a couple thousand miles the bike would run like ***. A LOT of folks experienced this issue, chalked it up to... they all do that... and went about their business after making the bike have an open loop tune. Later, with a new bike, they went to a PV and... their tune would NOT drift. Must be the PV is superior!

NOPE!

The new bike had 12mm sensors down low and THAT fixed the issue of tune drift, not the tuner itself.

Anyways, I am actually quite pleased you followed the advice and fixed this issue. After trial and error, and dicking around tuning, and not getting the results you felt you should? NOW... your results will be so much better. The tunes will be better and very stable. Plus... since you have experimented and played around quite a bit, you WILL end up with the tune that will please all of us, too. Your questions are anything but stoopid or 'newbie' to me, OK? Seems to me, you know how to work the software... that IS a huge plus, and now we can try to get down to business. Right now? I, myself, have an 09 ECM in my 2010 Ratra. TPS tuning is a bit different than Lambda tuning. The big issue me and Mayor think is this... TPS tunes, when extended to 100kpa at least works. I have played with wide bands after a v-tune and using extend. It beats a blank, and will be safe (AFR does NOT drift higher to the 15s, for example). Lambda tunes, OTOH, do NOT have the ability to extend as well.

To other fellow members that have the old style 18mm bungs.... fix them like this member did and no matter what device you are using for tuning... your tunes will improve, be more 'right on the money', and will end up very stable. "Garbage in Garbage out" really really comes into play with tuning and using closed loop. If the O2s are sending garbage signals to the bike... the bike will respond with a garbage tune. Jakazz, how about you making changing out both O2s on a yearly basis. THAT will make it solid, indeed. It is what I do with my personal bike.

Good deal, my friend. Good deal.

 

So ever since doing the bungs I have done about 5 real tuning runs, a few were just to f'n cold to deal with for any length of time. Today i got to do a final "for now" run. I live just outside of boston, very urban,.. so lots of traffic. I will get the higher stuff later. For a base I feel good. Started with the base tune and got my cam dialed in, never estimated the closing, dialed it in good. Ran the first few runs and added 10% to the Cu. In. and reduced my VE's by 5% and I'm high but not over so I think I'm good.

I'm going to do some data runs tomorrow, and check for knock, then adjust from there.

Been researching the whole EGR stuff, a little baffled, but will adjust and see and go from there "step by step".

I appreciate the help guys, I think I was adjusting way to much at first and getting out of control. So it was good to back off and restart. The bung issue was way out of control. And I read that in your post about "maintenance " of the O2's. Sounds smart.

heres the lastest tuning run

https://app.box.com/s/hutbmh8wqlez9pt2dpdj

A couple pics







So considering the EGR, here is my analysis, I'm wondering about the egr 2D graph, it has to be there for some anylitical representation to get something from it. Why did steve put it in, What does it tell us?

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about EGR's right now. The VT3 will be out soon. Got another peek at the working demo the other day and VT3 will do the EGR's for you.

If you just want to play the ping-pong game I can see your dots are above the red line. The object of the game is to get the dots on the red line. Since they are above the line you should reduce your EGR's. It may take 10% or 50%. You never know how much. Do the front cylinder first, check the graph again. If the dots get closer then you are on the right path. Then do the rear cylinder.

 

I have read some articles and some posts on other forums on the subject. Correct me if I am misunderstanding this please. Reversion is a wave or pulse within the exhaust system created by the engine. It allows cool air back into the exhaust system which disrupts the exhaust flow somewhat. That being said, when you adjust the egr settings with tts it changes the ve tables as I have seen. My question is how or what does it do? Is it in timing when the injector starts spraying vs throttle position? Just trying gain some knowledge.

Thanks

 

Some people think that the exhaust only flows one way. Pop, pop, pop. But it actually flows both ways. Pop, suck, pop, suck, pop, suck.

This sucking action is called exhaust reversion. It draws in colder air into your exhaust pipe. When you have decel pop the colder air mixes with the decel mixture and puts the exhaust gases within the burn ratio. When the exhaust valves opens and there is a spark... PoW... decel pop. Shift pop is similar but harder to fix.

Shift pop is a combination of exhaust reversion and timing. You can richen up the decel mixture (taking it out of the burn ratio) to stop the exhaust gas mix with reversion to end decel pop but to eliminate shift pop you must find where the shift pop is occurring in RPM's and change the timing by advancing it or retarding it up to 4*.

VE tables come into play when adjusting the decel enleanment doesn't fix the decel pop issue. Richen up (add %) to the decel VE table until it's gone. (First column on the left)

Working with EGR really doesn't effect decel pop. It smooths out your VE tables under 60 kPa. This will give you the smooth acceleration we are looking for when you roll up the throttle. The motor works less hard and your mileage increases. Two totally different animals.

Maybe this will help you understand the different coalitions.

 

Wiz, thanks. Thankfully I don't have any popping. I am trying to understand when you adjust the egr how it changes the ve tables. I know tHe bike is running better, I guess I'll play with the dots some more. When you bring up the egr tables for making adjustments and you look at the graph should that profile be smooth or doesn't it matter?