Look guys, when the VE tables are set leave them alone, if you want more fuel or less fuel use the AFR table. If you start altering the VE tables for this reason you are throwing off the math in the VE look up tables and that skews the whole map.
Doc

 

when I ran the updater... the file types available for 205 now have 2 different suffixes. C1 and C2. Any differences?

 

maybe my gps is out-but i doubt it.

bike is 2008 road king classic with abs

starting calibration used TD205-002-C2.MT7

gearing is stock (as per manual)
compensating sprocket 34 teeth
clutch 46 teeth
transmission output 32 teeth
rear wheel sprocket 66 teeth

wheel roll out measure by marking wheel and floor
pushed bike forward one full turn of wheel and make another mark
distance between marks on floor measured 78.42 inches
this is stock tire about 1/3 worn

vss calculator spits out number of 2101 makes speedo read high
gps corrected i ended up with 2183.

which is not a big deal, i verify any speedo calibration using gps. just wanted to point it out so others double check there speedos when done.

point for needing to see the original file for editing-could have just used factory settings for the speedo.


ok next point, when looking for what caused your detonation or where to adjust in the timing map. usually one or two frames before you see the knock is what caused it. most often will be application of throttle. this is where the histogram (if present) would show a general area to work with.
you will just have to use trial and error. review your log data-take a look what your 02 sensor readings did just before the knock- if the sensor voltage took a dive you might need more AE, if the sensor voltage ramped down slow you might need to richen VE. if sensor voltage stayed level then maybe you just have too much timing. and also remember than retarding timing has a slight richening effect on fuel while advancing causes a slight leaning. VE is simple to adjust, Timing takes patience and time and SMALL adjustments. rinse repeat as necessary.

just a side note-stock quarter mile time for me was 14.11 seconds (this is on a real track), after mastertuning now runs 13.4.
(2200 feet altitude-no vht down on track-you dont even want to see the 60 foot time)

why would i run a touring bike down the track--because i can!

 

The VSS numbers you entered look good for the bike. Maybe the calibration of the speedo guage itself is somewhat off. Bottom line, you can correct for it and make the reading accurate!

FYI, the VSS value is not stored in the calibration. It is read out of the ECM and by default the original factory value is what appears in the Vss window when programming. It is only changed if you type in a new number.

--Gary

 

Delet the C-1 cals....keep the C-2 cals

 

The 205-002-C2 files just correct the axis labels on the 3-D chart for the throttle table. Just cosmetic...

--Gary

 

Thanks a lot mrrattle for your advice. Yes, I have found that timming adjust is a really time consuming task.

Best regards.

 

Doc or anyone that knows.

Do the harley/delphi ecms use fuel trim cells at all?
if so what are the boundarys?

 

another question. I am looking at data from a digital technician compared to datamaster. I know there was a big debate about the closed loop integrator in previous postings but what about the front and rear adaptive fuel values?

the way i understand the operation is the computer uses VE table for initial fuel injector pulse, then uses o2 sensor feedback to make adjustments to the fueling. there are two values associated with this, one being the closed loop integrator and the other being the adaptive fuel value.

now the closed loop integrator will jump all over the place because it represents fast updates, while the adaptive fuel value is the long term trim applied, this value is much slower to update and is a very accurate representation of deviation from actual VE table. In a perfect world the adaptive fuel value should be within a couple percent of 100 (no fuel trimming). if you got the VE table set bang on.

now I dont want to smack the proverbial hornets nest here, but i do think the FRONT and REAR ADAPTIVE FUEL VALUE might be useful for fine tuning some of those hard to get to spots in the VE table (cells that only get one or two hits when ve tuning), but the adaptive fuel value will show up even if you hit the load range once (after some extended driving so cell can be learned)

also as steve said earlier-the closed loop integrator is pretty much useless.

but the adaptive fuel value might have some use.

fwi--you can still see the closed loop integrator if you export your data log (assuming you select it as one of the paramaters to output). it just doesnt show up in the regular data display.


so i guess my whole point is this.

can you add the Front and Rear Adaptive Fuel Values to the data list (even if it is hidden and only veiwable in an outputted csv file)

 

Doc,
Do you have any shops scheduled in Colorado for TTS training?
The only one close that really any good with dyno tuning is Red Hill in Lyons but they say they will give it a try but dont know the software.

And, BTW, the O2 has been replaced. I will make it a practice from now on to make a O2 Data session 1st to check that they are working correctly.