Have an 07 Fatboy (with CA smog). Installed SE stage one air and V&H Straight Shots. Ive been trying to figure out what the best (dependable) fuel controller to install. The bike runs ok now, with little popping but I think it is running hotter and using gas. I was looking at the Daytona Twin Tec, Auto tune with O2 interface but seems it has only been out for a short while. I see Thundermax seems to be out there too.. Anyone have experience with these or reason to recommend something else?

Also want to know if it's an easy install for a backyard mechanic or should I take it in? Would sure appreciate your input.

Steelguy

 

I went with ThunderMax...yes, it was easy..I did it!

 

TM with autotune, expensive but worth it.

 

A PCV would be the easiest to install and least expensive. Call Fuel Moto, as they sell both PCV and TMax and will give you no-BS advise.

 

Those are decent systems, but also check out the TTS tuning kit. If its for you, it provides a better running bike with less hassle than the two you list. In fact, according to the tuning guys that have kept up to date, there is no better system out there for either stock or highly modified bikes. It costs less money than either the PCV autotune or TMax and does not require any mechanical skill to install. You tune for economy, power or both.

Why does a systems that uses wideband sensors not provide better street performance? Sound illogical. But these companies are stretching the truth (marketing) a bit by advertising wideband sensors where, in fact, they are broadband type. Narrowband and broadband sensors use the same technology, they compare exhaust gas vs gas that comes in via the wire to come up with a voltage that corresponds to relative O2 levels. Broadbands add an ion pump to broaden their measurement range. In order to use them effectively, the sensor controller needs to know the pressure difference between inside the exhaust pipe and outside which none of these consumer systems do. So in the end the sensors perform about the same within the narrowband range but are not that accurate outside the range. True wideband sensors do not have this problem, but they also cost roughly $900 each.

Bottom line all these systems provide a great running bike, the TTS with less money and hassle.

 

Really? Are we going to dance this minuet again? Let's start with stock: Could you show any evidence or provide any explanation why TTS is the best available? You can list your tuner's feature set, but other tuners have feature sets that will appeal more to others. The truth is that the tuners mentioned here (PCV, TMax, and TTS) are all fine tuners, and which is best for a given rider will vary. If you would like to compare feature sets of TTS vs. the PCV-AT, feel free to start it. I don't have anything to do today since it's raining.

Modified? There's a recent thread in the Touring section of this forum where a highly modified supercharged bike was tuned with both TTS and a PCV-AT. TTS was used to provide the base-map tuning, but the PCV-AT had to be used because TTS couldn't handle the boost pressures needed for the job. To suggest that one tuner is better for modified bikes is not based on any evidence you can provide. Let's be honest, shall we? TTS is a fine system, but there are other fine systems on the market, and which is better depends on which feature set the rider prefers.

It is true TTS is cheaper than PCV-AT and TMax at the outset, but you leave out some important info. First, you can't tune in closed-loop mode past 50% TP, and within closed-loop mode you can't tune beyond 14.2-15.0:1 AFR. Second, you can't tune in open-loop mode without a dyno-tune, at least not without guessing. If you say you can, explain in detail how you can tune in open-loop mode without feedback? When you factor in the dyno-tune, which is not required to tune AFRs with either PCV-AT or TMax, the TTS kits is more expensive.

So what difference does it make how they are labeled? The WB sensors in the PCV-AT kit are Bosch LSU4, and they are marketed as "wideband" sensors. Is Bosch lying? Regardless of the label, they will read AFRs of 11-16:1 and will sample throughout the RPM and TP range. Do we need more that this?

This is so incredibly vague and baseless. Could you explain which wideband sensors are mislabeled and are in fact "broadband" sensors? Links?

So are you saying the wideband sensors in the PCV-AT package are not wideband sensors and don't read a broader range than the stock narrowband sensors? If so, could you explain how my WB sensors read AFRs of 11-16:1? I'm running as low as 13:1 on my bike at WOT and it is providing these AFR's. Are you saying it isn't? Please explain, and feel free to provide us with links.

...except you need a dyno-tune to fully tune the bike without guesswork. With that it is more expensive.

 

I have read this statement (in this post and a few others of yours) several times and it makes absolutely no sense. You seem to take pieces of the overall picture and come to individual conclusions that conveniently support your product.

Dyno machines were around LONG before the use of fuel injection and closed/open loop operations. Closed/open loop is simply a part of the overall tuning of a motor. And the O2 sensors are nothing more then another tool that's available to those that wish to use them (hint...some systems advertised here actually require the sensors be disconnected).

Tuning has been going on since the first internal combustion engine was invented. And they did the tuning without the aid of scopes, computers, and dyno machines.

So, yes, one can tune in open loop with or without a dyno.

Sorry my friend, either you weren't exposed to points, condensers, timing lights, and vacuum gauges or you've forgotten the foundation of today's tuning.

 

I don't support any product, but try to tell it like I see it. If you disagree with me, please be specific and outline what you disagree with. There are objective facts to be weighed in discussions about tuners. What I've always said is that the principle high-end tuners on the market (PCV, TMax, TTS, and SEST) are all good and it is up to the potential buyer to determine the feature set that appeals to him the most. I've never once said that any tuner was superior overall to another.

Remember what I was responding to. Coldcase always enters these tuner discussions with grandiose claims that his tuner of choice (TTS) is the "best" tuner on the market, with no caveats, conditions, or allowances for individual feature preferences. I would simply like to have him present the reasons why he thinks so, but in previous threads this never happens. He will pop-up in future threads, often hijacking threads that don't pertain to TTS at all, with the same claims--only to start the cycle over again.

Now, what are the pieces I am omitting in this discussion? Rather than make vague accusations, get specific and let's discuss it. Let's start with the part of my message above that you don't understand and the points you feel have been left out. Please be specific and we'll discuss each in turn in a rational way. You didn't mention even one in your last message and I have no idea what you're referring to.

You can tune in open-loop with a dyno since there is feedback either from a sniffer or wide-band O2 sensors. You can't tune in open-loop mode without a feedback device. If you think you can, please explain in detail how you think that can be accomplished without guesswork.

I was messing with PP&C as far back as 1962, and my third bike had three sets of points, three condensers, and three plugs. It was a joy to tune, which had to be done with a circuit tester. Anyway, what on earth do PP&C have to do with open-loop and closed-loop tuning on today's bikes? What does it have to do with this discussion? You have made vague accusations without explaining your point-of-view at all, whatever that is. Let's have some details please.

 

Accusations?

Accusations: a noun in the plural form, a charge of wrongdoing.

Are you sure you wanted to use that word? I did express an opinion (an appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter) but did not charge you with a wrongdoing.

Details? I'm well aware of your fondness for that term. I might have been born at night but it wasn't last night.

AMF! (detail - that means adios my friend)

 

My sincere apologies for the above thread drift.