Thanks. I was hoping someone from FuelMoto would confirm this, as they are a vendor. I guess they pick and choose who they respond to on the forum here. I'm still getting conflicting info from various sources so I'm looking for some solid advice. I heard FuelMoto was supportive but a little disappointed why they wouldn't help.

I will try to ask again if someone knows. If I have no clue what tuner was used previously on a used bike.....should I even consider unloading 5 bills on a Power Vision?

Thanks

James

 

usaf8ret- Let's chalk up your comments to being new here and being somewhat frustrated with feeling confident on shelling out a few grand on a bike. We've all been there to some degree with bike shopping.

Everyone is here to help everyone, it is an open forum. FM (Jamie) is one person who helps a lot of members here as best he can- well far and above a lot of other sponsored forums. I have asked tons of questions and not gotten an answer. Nor do I expect one. But other members here - quite knowledgeable ones - always step in and help. You've already gotten some pretty solid info in this thread- the rest of it- pick up the phone and call TTS, Dynojet. Ask those questions to the direct sources.

AFAIK no quality tuner device will render a bike ECM useless if the tuning device is lost or switch to another brand. We already know a tuned bike with an SE tuner does not present an issue for the Powervision.

Is it worthwhile to buy a Powervision? that's a personal choice- it is a great way to learn about tuning and dial in the bike any way you prefer. but some riders never buy one / don't care. it really depends on what you are looking to do with the bike. If you plan on modding / upgrading the performance, then yes the PV is worth the coin spent.

Good luck with your quest- You may be overthinking the issue a bit JMHO.

 

We are more than happy to assist with any questions you have, however for best response from Fuel Moto please use our normal channels of communication which are email or phone. This allows for a directly line of communication rather than sorting thru information between various threads and posts. While we do post on forums we are limited due to our normal daily workload, coming into season we are not able to participate here often.

To answer your question you can use a Power Vision on any previously tuned bike with the exception of TTS. In this case you need to restore the original .mte file to unlock the ECM, if this file is not available the ECM needs to be sent in to us and we can unlock it. For more info we can be contacted at www.fuelmotousa.com info@fuelmotousa.com or 920-423-3309, all channels are open

 

Jamie- if you get a chance could you clarify this for me- unable to find answer anywhere.

On decel VE's, I'm not convinced they are accurate for the bike given how far off all of the other VE's have been- is there any merit to including 20-30 map VE's on at least one TT AT run to dial them in a bit? And if so, what's the best way to hit them efficiently.

 

When I did my first autotune runs with TT, I hadn't excluded MAPs 30 and below. Although I wasn't getting any serious popping on decel, there was a hint of it starting to appear as the VEs in those areas were being leaned out by the autotune (fairly dramatically at the upper RPMs.)

At that point I reset all the 30 and below MAPs to the original FM tune, excluded those MAPs and continued tuning.

I've been watching the MAP on the guages screen. My bike ('16 FLTRUSE with Jackpot exhaust/mufflers and head work) idles at about 25.5-27 MAP. The only time it's below that is on decel. So in terms of efficiency, I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained by tweaking the VEs 25 and below. I'm going to try a couple of runs with 25 and below excluded just to see where autotune wants the VEs at 30.

Having said that, I'm not eager to lean it out very much. I'm pretty happy with where it is.

I'll second your appraisal of TT. After three autotune runs I was at 1-2% delta and the bike pulls hard with good throttle response in all regions. I had about 2500 miles on the bike before the exhaust, head work and PV/TT install. There's a real SOTP difference between then and now. It was worth every penny!

Like The Checkered Demon used to say, "Sometimes I get tired just smilin' all the time."



Rat

 

Thanks Capt- sure, makes sense- i don't want to lean out decel VE's - I only want to be sure they are close / correct for the motor. that way, when I set my richer lambda values for the decel areas I can be sure that the ecm / TT is adjusting to lambda targets accurately.

Was thinking that at least one AT run to include 20-30 map would allow some VE tune-in. Then exclude 20-30 from any further AT sessions.

Seriously though- tuning just became a whole lot of easier with TT. Great product. Not only that, but it makes switching between a long distance economy-maximized tune and an in-town / performance tune ridiculously easy. just edit lambda tables per needs, save as tune file in a PV slot. flash different tunes as needed when needed.

 

The decel area is somewhat unique from a tuning standpoint as there are quite a few things going on as far as transients, enleanment multipliers, decel fuel cutoff, etc.. not to mention the reversion that is present, fortunately this is generally a pretty simple region to tune. To establish VE in this area we generally need to come in at a bit different angle than conventional tuning methods. When we are developing our calibrations we are using wideband O2's and generally get the VE corrected/populated down to the lowest steady state RPM/TP/MAP pressure values of the tables, during this step the decel VE is disregarded. The next step we look at the VE tables themselves and blend the associated values that were established over to the left, modeling/predicting the low MAP pressure/minimum TP columns (decel area). We then test these changes for decel popping, on/off throttle abrupness and how the motor comes down to idle and adjust VE and the various other tables as required.

 

got it- thanks for sharing Jamie. so sounds like some expertise, skill and manual finesse is required. I do get what you're saying on all of that.

Granted, your provided tune maps for customers is more carefully crafted so one would not be as concerned with VE's being far out of range. The DJ customer maps, on the other hand, are well not correct as recently demonstrated. Matter of fact if you look at any number of different labeled DJ tune maps for AC/pipe combos for 2012-up dyna / softail many are 100% identical. and in some cases not even the correct strategy revision.

So based on your info I will do my best to emulate that. Will finish tuning VE's and then look at blending TPS cell values based on what the tuned values are.

Only remaining question, how to I translate TPS based VE to decel lambda MAP columns 20,30? TPS 0 column only or expand it to 2 or 5? This is one reason I wish us cable throttle guys had ability to reference MAP-based VEs

[[EDIT]] I think I answered my own question- tuned VEs will be changed in subsequent AT sessions, so any VE's not changed at far left will be within the decel map range excluded from AT session, and those are what I should look at blending.

 

I would need to see some specific examples of the Dynojet calibrations being the same map to map, I have not ran into this. It may have been a tune database or update client error on the Dynojet side of things. If you can get me some cal ID's I will look into this, I wrote some of the base cal's so I am familiar with them

As far as the light load/decel VE columns, on your TP based Softail calibration it will be the 0/2/5% TP columns, you will blend in the areas on left of the VE table where you cannot get to under normal steady state conditions. (i.e 2% TP, 5000 RPM)

 

I'll see what I can find on the Cal ID's - thanks for the tuning process guidance I've added that to my set of tuning notes. very much appreciated. DJ should have you on paid consultancy retainer