I moved to the right forum now. Got a question, did the cam plate swap on my 05 RKC and put in 203 cams while I had it apart the rest is still a stock 88. Already had the stage 1 download, Screamin Eagle air cleaner set up, Rhineharts with the Ful Sac pipe for true duals, just put on a new K&N air filter. The bike runs great no problems it does seem louder now than it did before the cams. Here’s the question I only have the stage 1 download and I’m getting different opinions on going to the stage 2 download. Some say I need a tuner, some say I need the stage 2 download and some say it will fine with the stage 1 download because I did not go to a big bore just changed the cams. Looking for some opinions, suggestions. Thanks
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Here's how HD conciders there stages. Stage I is pipes, airbox and fuel management, stage II is pipes, air box, fuel management and cams. It is possible in HD's eyes to have a 95" stage I or II. So you should concider getting a PC or SERT or some other kind of fuel management system and a tune.

 

I agree get a fuel management device. As far as stages go I could never get into that to what is what, I just put in what I want, cams, bigger bored cyl, tuners

 

it just depends on what shop you are talking to. Some say big bore is stage III, big bore with headwork is stage IV. As far as Harley is concerned, you can have a stage I big bore. Like the CVO bike, it may come with a 110 but if you are running the stock air cleaner and pipes it's a nothing. Add an air box and pipes and it's a stage I 110. Throw in cams it's a stage II. Minimal headwork stage III, major headwork stage IV.

 

On an 05 model I would get a ThunderMax. for what you paid for the adjustable push rods, a couple of hundred more you could for done a complete stage II.
I would not get the sert or download.

 

He did do a stage II, he said he put in the 203 cams.

To each his on on the tuner, I have found nothing wrong with the SERT, or the Thundermax for that matter.

 

Complete stage II as in a big bore.
You have an 07 and he has an 05, they are completely different EFI systems. The ThunderMax is made to work best with his type of system. A sert or TSS is better for your type. It is not really a matter of opinion, it is a matter of changing technology.

 

I tune Harleys for a living, i'm well aware of the efi differneces. (they are both Delphi, by the way. The o2 sensors introduced in '07 would be the differnce). Thundermax is a great product. But a properly tuned SERT is every bit as capable. It's all in the tune. Like I said previously, HD doensn't consider a stage II a big bore, just cams. you can have a stage I 95" in HD's terminology.

 

If you want to play with words, then yes I should of added Big Bore. If you tune Harleys for a living then you should understand the differences between Speed Density and Alpha-N systems.You should also understand that it is a much bigger difference than some O2 sensors.
A ThunderMax is an Alpha N system.
A sert is great if he wants to have it tuned. But, a thundermax will autotune for him.

 

Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. I wasn't trying to "play with words". the OP wanted to know what stage I and stage II are. I was simply trying to give him the HD definition.

I do understand the differnence between Speed Density and Alpha-N. I'm not going to argue that the Thundrmax is a great product and works well. I've tuned plenty of them. I'm just saying that the SERT is a very capable tool if tuned properly. Alpha-N systems esrimate the volume of air/fuel based on the load of the engine, it uses TPS and RPM to estimate. When we tune it we calibrate the ECM to a known A/F ratio to "teach" it what the A/F really is. Works great. Speed Density uses pressure and temperature to actually calculate the volume of air entering the engine.