I have a 2004 Heritage with an 88cu.in.....It has k&n air filter, Vance & Hines slashcuts. I assume that would be considered a Stage I for mapping purposes. I previously got 40-42 mpg. I recently had to replace cam tensioners and upgraded to SE203 Cams. The Harley shop upgraded my map to their Stage II canned map. Now my mileage has dropped to 35 mpg. It seems to be running rich or at least smells that way. I have not pulled the spark plug to look at it. It also has a little blubber to it when running at low rpms. My question is do the SE203 cams require a Stage II map? They are not much more aggressive than the stock cams. Should I have lost MPG? Should I go back to the Stage I map? Any suggestions.....? Thanks so much for your expertise.

 

Stage whatever is one of the most misunderstood/misused/misleading terms in all of tuning.

And a "canned" map is just that...canned meaning it should be used as a starting point - NOT a finish point. If nothing is done to adjust the canned map to fit your bike, it's not been tuned and most likely you'll experience some undesirable traits like bad mileage, poor idling, weak performance to name a few.

One should NEVER settle for a canned map.

 

Thanks for the reply Pine Tree....The more I study this mapping thing the more I see exactly what you are saying. I guess I should look at buying a tuner and go for it. Can I get one properly tuned without have all the expense of a dyno? I have spoken with FuelMoto about their tuners and they said they have hundreds of maps and could probably be tuned without a dyno? what you say?

 

Any program that can access and make changes to the various tables will probably work for you.

The basis for any tune are the VE's...and every bike has its own flow characteristics that must be established (along with changes in cam settings) before any real tuning can begin. So, until those are set for YOUR bike, every canned map is just that - canned. And be very careful with those as some may have had their margins for safety taken down to next to nothing.

And yes, it can be done without a dyno machine. Some programs allow for data collection while the bike is ridden on the street.

Just be cautious of anyone telling you..."all ya need is...." unless you're looking for a mediocre running bike.

Knowledge is your biggest asset when it comes to tuning...just too many that want nothing more then to separate you from your money.

Good luck!

 

The people at Fuel Moto are very knowledgeable, and can supply good base tunes. I don't think you'd go wrong with their suggestions.

Something is wrong with the HD tune if you're only getting 35mpg.

My 96" w/ 48H cams gets 40-42 consistently and I haven't optimized the map for mpg.

I also have an 88" with 48N cams and that's getting 44-46mpg.

Different tuners, but both bikes run great. I prefer the Power Vision. Can't really recommend the HD product(s).

 

What Harley Shop? A Dealer? An Independent shop? Sounds like they just dropped a map in and nothing else. What you need is this: find a decent dyno shop. Your bike is a 2004 bike... so all that FM will sell is an add on power commander. Which MAY not be a bad thing.

I want more info before making suggestions. In any of the Harley shop actions, did they sell you any kind of tuner? Did a SERT come with the bike when you bought it? If it is an actual Dealer... can you give the part number they installed in the bike as a STage 2 tune? How about the PN for the STage 1 tune?

I ask, because now a days, and Stage 1 download, from a dealer, does NOTHING but raise RPMs. Back in the day... a Stage 1 download meant something. One can tell by the crossed flags. Older Stage1 DLs had crossed flags... race only... and was an actual decent thing for a Stage 1 bike.

Today... there are NO crossed flags, and the new downloads do NOTHING for fuel or timing. No Crossed flags means it is EPA compliant, see?

But... there will be dealers that still have the actual 2004 flashes.

You won't wish to hear this, but here goes... you will need a dyno at some point, if you are concerned with how the bike runs and rides. You COULD buy sniffing equipment and do it yourself. But... how much time do you wish to spend on this issue?

If taking it to a tuning shop? Then that shop will need a way into the ECM. Choices are limited due to it's a 2004. 2005? I would suggest a TTS and a conversion to having O2 sensors permanently on the bike. But the ECM on a 2004, will not support this.

For a one and done? Dyno experience, I would recommend a shop that has Direct Link. That seems to be the best 'tool' for your era of bike. No one on these boards like direct link, due to the fact a DIY guy cannot really mess with things... no tinkering. Do you wish to 'tinker' or just get it done correctly, have all of the fuel and timing set for YOUR bike and not some generic download? These are questions YOU need to answer, for yourself, before proceeding much further and possibly wasting money.

I know of a shop in East St Louis that tunes with Direct Link. PM me, and I can give you info on this shop. I would imagine a tune from here, with a Direct Link, would be just a tad more money than buying a PC5, with the AT100 kit new.

 

According to my receipt the map that was installed was the HD 32951-04A /DT.....if you look it up it really does not match the set-up I have....I did talk with the Tech and told him my issue and he said I should probably just go back to the Stage I map and see how that works out. That would seem like my bike would run really lean.....?

 

They did not sell me any tuner...just flashed my ecm...