Recently had my new build dyno tuned and it's running well. My understanding is that the O2 sensors on the bike are less sensitive than the sniffers on a dyno. So could doing any smart tune runs to "tweak" the tune and make it even better actually make it worse? I'm absolutely not second guessing my tuner. The bike's running strong, but I really want to learn and understand this stuff better and if there is any small measure of VE to be gained it would be fun to work at it.
Thanks!

 

Can't hurt to try as long as you have a copy of the current tune. Do some smart tunes and save the results to a new tune name. If you don't like the results, you can always go back to the dyno tune.

 

Like has been stated, it won't hurt and would be educational. Only issue I have is your stating the narrow band O2 are somehow inferior. Actually, for the range they report in, they are vastly more robust and will outlast a wide band by a huge margin.

When I tune... I use the bike's own sensors whenever possible. WIde bands are for only WOT and sometimes idle stuff. If you feel the tuner used wide bands across the board? Then you really do wish to do some smart tuning, if for nothing else to 'match' what the bike sees every day from the NB sensors and get those VEs to match what is found from using the NB sensors.

If not? Then there will always be some offsets in place, simply because the tune will not be matched to the sensors, where the sensors are working... cruise, etc. On a tune that is fully tuned 'open loop' this is not an issue at all, but when a bike has portions of the tune, running closed loop... then it is best to do the final dial in with the sensors on the bike itself... not off board sensors.

And... one can be fooling them selves if they were not there to watch a tuner do his job. Yes, wide bands are installed usually using some kind of block, like Herko Blocks, drilled into the front face of the pipe. Most tuners, if using the big three flash tuners will nowadays use the bike's sensors for most tuning and the wide bands for transitions in open to closed loop, visa-versa, and WOT areas only.

Tuning can be very addictive... and most of us started out tuning our own bikes and was never fully satisfied with things... so we just kept buying more and more crap until a dyno is purchased... and then you can guess the rest!

I will NEVER tell a member, here, to not try their own hand at things, especially when using TTS, SEPST, or PV... as long as they have a known to be good tune saved and always re-loadable into the ECM if selfie crap doesn't pan out. I WILL tell members to tread lightly when dealing with timing, tho.

 

Thanks WT very much! I was hoping you would answer as you are a great source of knowledge in this area and extremely generous with it and your time here.

 

I will NEVER tell a member, here, to not try their own hand at things, especially when using TTS, SEPST, or PV... as long as they have a known to be good tune saved and always re-loadable into the ECM if selfie crap doesn't pan out. I WILL tell members to tread lightly when dealing with timing, tho.

Hey WT, just wondering what you meant by tread lightly when dealing with timing. Ive done my smart tune runs and got the VEs to where they are not changing much and have increased CLB to get a bit more fuel. I only increased CLB around 100 mV so i wouldnt think its excessively rich but i smell fuel when I come back from a ride and let it idle in the garage before shutdown. So to get to the point, I was thinking of advancing the timing a few degrees to try to burn the extra fuel that Ive added. Does that sound right to you? Thanks, Matt.

 

 

Any thoughts Wurk Truk, or anybody else??

 

advancing timing may reduce performance, introduce pinging and worst case blow the engine up.

Wurk Truk should be along shortly

 

Ok, thanks. I advanced the timing 2* and it seemed to like it. The problem im having is running rough at cruise, runs really well at higher revs. From what ive read on this forum and others is that it needs more fuel to help that and a little decel pop. But when i add more fuel it doesn't seem to burn it, just spit it out the exhaust. Im thinking of just getting it dynoed but im really enjoying this self tuning thing and what i've learned and dont like the idea of just giving up when it gets too hard. Thanks.

I actually thought the anti-knock would retard the timing if it needed it. Im still learning so i may need to be set straight on a few things!!

 

Should I keep smart tuning? I've only done 3 data runs!