Frame/Engine Numbers

[78 Shovel]

Working on an Ironhead Sportster project. My brother picked it up pretty cheap from a friend who needed the $$. Whoever owned it before cut and welded in a wedge to rake the front end on the original, numbers matching frame. I have an old sporty frame with bill of sale that still has the stock rake but no numbers (pre 1970?). What are the potential consequences of swaping frames? Does he need to re-title it because the engine numbers won't match the frame? My brother wants to go back to the stock style frame for better handling because we're putting this bike together for his girlfriend to ride. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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[piniongear]

Originally Posted by 78 Shovel

Working on an Ironhead Sportster project. My brother picked it up pretty cheap from a friend who needed the $$. Whoever owned it before cut and welded in a wedge to rake the front end on the original, numbers matching frame. I have an old sporty frame with bill of sale that still has the stock rake but no numbers (pre 1970?). What are the potential consequences of swaping frames? Does he need to re-title it because the engine numbers won't match the frame? My brother wants to go back to the stock style frame for better handling because we're putting this bike together for his girlfriend to ride. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

If the frame does not have a number (old frames did not) then there is no question about the engine number and the frame number not matching. Use the title assigned to the engine number because that is all there is.

Down here in Texas we would just put the engine in the frame and go down to the county courthouse to pick up the plates using the title from the bike with the engine.

States may vary, so you best check Michigan laws if that is where the bike is located.
Don't go in the state office with your tail between your legs though.
You have a good frame with a bill of sale and a good title to the bike with the chopped up frame. You are legal and don't forget that.
Combine the engine and frame into one bike and don't make a big deal over it or they could cause you headaches if they took a mind to do so.
Never let tax authorities get a whiff of blood in other words, or you wind up as dead meat on their plate.
pg

[78 Shovel]

Thanks a ton for the 411. I was told the #'s on the frame and engine match. I just looked 5 minutes ago and noticed the frame doesn't have the VIN, just the casting #. Guess I should have looked for it myself instead of taking somebody elses word for it. I'll make sure I have my head out of my *ss next time I post a question. By the way, I do have a clean Michigan title so I guess we're all set. Thanks again for the info!!!!

[sepixlh]

Originally Posted by piniongear

If the frame does not have a number (old frames did not) then there is no question about the engine number and the frame number not matching. Use the title assigned to the engine number because that is all there is.

pg

As PG wrote 1969 and older don't have VIN on frame, but if you have newer engine you might have problems..

Prior to 1961
On Harley models prior to 1961, the engine number acts as the VIN. This number can be found on the left side engine case. Harley models produced prior to 1969 do not carry any frame number.

VIN Numbering Conventions:

* First two numbers are the model year.
* Letters (up to four) are the model designation.
* The last numbers are the production run number.

1962 - 1969

VIN Numbering Conventions:

* First two numbers are the model year.
* Letters (2-4) are the model designation.
* The last numbers are the production run number.

In addition, models with 4 digit production numbers have an even-numbered first digit for even years, odd for odd years.
Models containing a 5 digit production number will have the first two digits even for even years, odd for odd years.

Why is this important? If the VIN does not follow this even or odd numbering sequence, you can almost guarantee that the VIN has been altered. It is extremely common to find mismatched engines in these early bikes with different VIN numbers than the title paperwork.