Seems like it's a money market to me, HD says "required" so you will in turn spend $300 more on their tuner and even more for the labor to do the work. If they did not make a tuner I wonder if it would still be "required". That's probably why they are saying you can only use the SE tuner now, all about money in their pocket. You can put a complete cold air intake and exhaust on any fuel injected car and you don't have to tune or remap anything. All internal combustion engines just on a smaller scale for the Harley. Don't get me wrong, will the bike run better with it, probably, but is it truly "required" highly unlikely. Just my opinion

 

perhaps, but not worth the gamble on the engine..people spend the cost of a tuner on an aesthetically appealing item without giving it a second thought..I'm not 100% conspiracy theory on on this particular expense

 

Has anyone tried the Xied's on the 17's?

 

My bike is lean as hell from the factory. You could hear it decel popping in the OEM mufflers. Soon as I put the Eliminator 400's on it it wanted to sound like a 2 stroke. Put the FP3 on it and that was fixed. Now I'm just waiting on fuel-moto to get my V&H naked shipped out.

 

If you have not done so you should read the courts consensus regarding the settlement between the EPA and The Motor Company which came about in August 2016. In a nutshell, the EPA charged that the MOCO was manufacturing and selling devices that were meant to circumvent the EPA laws regarding pollution control for new vehicles. As part of the settlement the MOCO had to buy back any tuning devices which remained unsold on the dealers shelves in order to get them out of the market. The EPA did not say that the MOCO could not manufacture or sell any "NEW" tuners, only that the new tuners had to comply with current EPA pollution guidelines. Thus the renaming of the Harley tuners to be called Screaming Eagle Street Tuner. This all culminated at about the time the MOCO was getting ready to introduce their new line of 2017 vehicles, so they definitely had the MOCO by the short hairs.

The EPA clearly had targeted Harley Davidson in their cross+hairs and fully (it would seem) intended to make an example out of them to the rest of the vehicle manufacturers. Remember that the EPA was still dealing with Volkswagon at about the same time. They are dead serious about this pollution thing. Just to make sure they had the MOCOs attention, the Department Of Justice also levied a $15,000.000 fine on them.

To get all the fine print you can Google "harley epa settlement". This settlement is far reaching on the manufacturers of devices "intended" to circumvent the pollution laws, not so much on the retailer.

 

I'm die hard Harley all the way. I have not ridden anything other than a Harley since 1977..... Probably wouldn't ride if I couldn't get a Harley... However...

There are numerous cases of the MoCo trying to trick, cajole, or otherwise imply requirements that make no sense technically or legally, just for the "sale".

Just a couple examples are with oil. The MoCo used to say that synthetic oil was bad for, and could ruin the HD engines; cause leaking gaskets and wreak havoc with the clutch in the primary.... that was until they got their own brand of synthetic oil... now they want you put the same oil in all three holes

Look at the current oil recommendations.... they recommend HD oils, unless unavailable. Then the say use diesel rated oil. But they add to change back to HD oil as soon as practical... really? Who's buying that...

Requirements, doubling as marketing strategy, must be taught in Profit 101 classes. You can see it in many ways, in almost every business. I've even seen it in scuba diver certification classes, and that training is life & death important. It appears to be the way business is done these days...

 

I am not sure that everyone realizes that when you buy one of Harley's Street Tuners that you can download the tuning software from their website and tune it yourself. It clearly says this on the outside of the box the tuner comes in. I went to the website they mention and it looks to be Windows compatible so I assume you can install the software on your computer and tune it from there. I'll bet that you have to have some proprietary cable or such between your computer and the Tuner, but I am not clear on that. I think I will try this all out before long. Anybody out there already have a go at tuning a new 2017 or 2016 using the software?

 

You're correct on the tuner cable from the computer to the tuner, lol, Sold separately of course.

 

yeah, been around and owned lots myself..and aware of all the epa stuff in the post above...I spent the $ on the tuner and got my money's worth just for the rev limit and idle speed increases as well as peace of mind.. runs fantastic..$300 is pennies to me after spending close to $25000 including lots of $ on other upgrades..I don't feel qualified to try and out smart them on what's best for their engines..not willing to gamble that way..do you really believe they didn't come up with calibrations based on what they determined were better for the engine in conjunction with their performance parts? I'm well aware of the Harley Tax..all their stuff seems over priced, but the fit, finish, function and performance has always satisfied me so I get value..if they didn't sell this stuff what they price it for we wouldn't be riding new M8's because they'd have been out of business long ago..pick your poison

 

I visited with a very well known bike tuner. This is how he put it to me. The Harley tuner will give you a better running bike than stock. He says all the others have the potential to get more out of the bike than the Harley one but usually would have to be custom tuned to get it. So in simple terms if you plan on never having your bike tuned by nothing but a canned map the Harley one will do just fine and of coarse with a warranty. My area has no tuners so even if I wanted to get it done there is nobody to take it to so with that said I will use Harley's tuner this time.