Help!!! Rocker c softail 2011 wont start after i changed the derby cover
#11
#12
If all you did is change the derby cover I don't see how it could be something you've done.
That "bit" is the starter pinion gear (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the name) it is supposed to come out and engage the larger gear when you hit the starter button. That is what spins the engine so it will start. Once you let go of the button it is supposed to retract away from the larger gear. As someone said earlier the teeth on that starter gear look suspect, but it could just be the light.
The good news is, if that's you trouble, it's nothing too serious. The bad news is it's a bitch to get to the starter on a softail to replace it. I just did mine... I believe all the parts ran me about $400 but then I did the work so I didn't pay for labor.
If you are at all handy with tools, get a shop manual and dig in. There is plenty of help here and some youtube videos that will help. Best of luck.
***Oh one other thing I saw in your pictures. one of those bolts that hold the outer ring on to your clutch mechanism(don't know what it's called) looks like it was over torqued and has bent that ring. I don't know that that is a problem but maybe someone else can chime in that has a more experienced eye.
That "bit" is the starter pinion gear (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the name) it is supposed to come out and engage the larger gear when you hit the starter button. That is what spins the engine so it will start. Once you let go of the button it is supposed to retract away from the larger gear. As someone said earlier the teeth on that starter gear look suspect, but it could just be the light.
The good news is, if that's you trouble, it's nothing too serious. The bad news is it's a bitch to get to the starter on a softail to replace it. I just did mine... I believe all the parts ran me about $400 but then I did the work so I didn't pay for labor.
If you are at all handy with tools, get a shop manual and dig in. There is plenty of help here and some youtube videos that will help. Best of luck.
***Oh one other thing I saw in your pictures. one of those bolts that hold the outer ring on to your clutch mechanism(don't know what it's called) looks like it was over torqued and has bent that ring. I don't know that that is a problem but maybe someone else can chime in that has a more experienced eye.
Last edited by Square; 12-02-2015 at 12:33 AM.
#13
So you changed the derby cover and replaced the primary oil , thats all,, and the bike wont start and makes a hell of a racket .. Very strange indeed !!!
You have removed the primary cover , checked inside , and no foreign matter was found..
The pressure plate does look like it is bent in a bit , but that could be just the way the photo was taken ... The starter clutch pinion gear does look like it is worn , ie , pieces taken off .. I take it the whole of the flywheel was not missing any teeth...
None of the above would be caused by what you have done, ie derby cover , and new oil ... You say you tried to start the bike with primary cover off . Was the problem/noise, coming from the starter clutch trying to mesh with the flywheel ????
You have removed the primary cover , checked inside , and no foreign matter was found..
The pressure plate does look like it is bent in a bit , but that could be just the way the photo was taken ... The starter clutch pinion gear does look like it is worn , ie , pieces taken off .. I take it the whole of the flywheel was not missing any teeth...
None of the above would be caused by what you have done, ie derby cover , and new oil ... You say you tried to start the bike with primary cover off . Was the problem/noise, coming from the starter clutch trying to mesh with the flywheel ????
#14
I don't see how it could be anything you did.
Need more information on exactly when it makes the "terrible noise".
Does it happen as soon as you push the starter button, and does it happen even if the spark plug wires are disconnected?
Does the engine completely fail to start?
When you push the starter, are the sprockets and primary chain turning?
Does the engine fire, and then you get the terrible noise?
One thing I notice from the photos is that the gears on the starter and the clutch ring don't seem to be completely disengaged.
Need more information on exactly when it makes the "terrible noise".
Does it happen as soon as you push the starter button, and does it happen even if the spark plug wires are disconnected?
Does the engine completely fail to start?
When you push the starter, are the sprockets and primary chain turning?
Does the engine fire, and then you get the terrible noise?
One thing I notice from the photos is that the gears on the starter and the clutch ring don't seem to be completely disengaged.
#15
I don't see how it could be anything you did.
Need more information on exactly when it makes the "terrible noise".
Does it happen as soon as you push the starter button, and does it happen even if the spark plug wires are disconnected?
Does the engine completely fail to start?
When you push the starter, are the sprockets and primary chain turning?
Does the engine fire, and then you get the terrible noise?
[IMGLINK]One thing I notice from the photos is that the gears on the starter and the clutch ring don't seem to be completely disengaged.
Need more information on exactly when it makes the "terrible noise".
Does it happen as soon as you push the starter button, and does it happen even if the spark plug wires are disconnected?
Does the engine completely fail to start?
When you push the starter, are the sprockets and primary chain turning?
Does the engine fire, and then you get the terrible noise?
[IMGLINK]One thing I notice from the photos is that the gears on the starter and the clutch ring don't seem to be completely disengaged.
I agree ,, Does not seem to be disengaged from the flywheel at rest..( ie, not retracted and waiting for power to starter, to engaged pinion gear). But I cant understand why the starter clutch would fail in that way, just out the the blue like that !!! You haven't removed the starter, and played with the internals recently ???
#16
I agree ,, Does not seem to be disengaged from the flywheel at rest..( ie, not retracted and waiting for power to starter, to engaged pinion gear). But I cant understand why the starter clutch would fail in that way, just out the the blue like that !!! You haven't removed the starter, and played with the internals recently ???
Yes, I'd normally want to connect the issue to something that was done, and that's what the OP has looked at too.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 12-02-2015 at 04:54 AM.
#17
Yup, you are missing parts of teeth on the starter gear. Looks like it is not retracting. That would be the noise/grinding you hear. For the life of me, I cannot find my links to the online parts fiche. Found it (Ronnies). The starter for my 2014 shows I can get the CLUTCH SUBASSEMBLY to replace the parts instead of replacing the starter.
2011 Rocker - 31633-07A CLUTCH SUBASSEMBLY, $115.99
Starter - 31618-06A STARTER ASSEMBLY COMPLETE (BLACK) $380.99
The CLUTCH SPRING SEAT looks bent, but it is not, it is just the picture.
As for the amount of oil, 1 litre (bottle) only, do not over fill.
The primary cover has a specific tightening pattern. Do not over tighten, pain in the a$$ to get out the bolts if you strip the hex head. Even worse if you strip the threads.
2011 Rocker - 31633-07A CLUTCH SUBASSEMBLY, $115.99
Starter - 31618-06A STARTER ASSEMBLY COMPLETE (BLACK) $380.99
The CLUTCH SPRING SEAT looks bent, but it is not, it is just the picture.
As for the amount of oil, 1 litre (bottle) only, do not over fill.
The primary cover has a specific tightening pattern. Do not over tighten, pain in the a$$ to get out the bolts if you strip the hex head. Even worse if you strip the threads.
Last edited by Gommee; 12-02-2015 at 10:00 PM. Reason: additions
#18
We have all heard and read about what a failing starter clutch can do and sound like. But you can usually work out its starting to fail with the grinding sound at start up,( ie , grind ,, grind,, start up and away you go , until the next start up. ).
But in the OPs case , the pinion gear just happens to be stuck in engaged position,( ie, hitting the flywheel), all of a sudden !! All evidence is pointing to this as the problem...
The only time I have had a similar problem , (and it was my doing), when I replaced a starter clutch , I inadvertently installed down the shaft of the New starter clutch a second small ball bearing, (not knowing one was already down the shaft),, This extended the pinion gear approx a quarter of an inch , making contact with the flywheel at rest ... It made a hell of noise, and scared the sh--t out of me when I hit the start button.
But in the OPs case , the pinion gear just happens to be stuck in engaged position,( ie, hitting the flywheel), all of a sudden !! All evidence is pointing to this as the problem...
The only time I have had a similar problem , (and it was my doing), when I replaced a starter clutch , I inadvertently installed down the shaft of the New starter clutch a second small ball bearing, (not knowing one was already down the shaft),, This extended the pinion gear approx a quarter of an inch , making contact with the flywheel at rest ... It made a hell of noise, and scared the sh--t out of me when I hit the start button.
#19
I started mine and when I let out the clutch I heard a grinding sound. It ended up being the inner primary bearing burned the race on the shaft going from the clutch to transmission.
This ended up in a complete disassembly of the primary casing which I did and removing the bearing from the inner primary case and the race from the shaft. Found the race was pushed on to far inward to where the removal tool couldnt get inside the drive pulley and ended up cutting it off with a Dremel (like heart surgery, one cut to deep and death to the transmisson.) Reassembly was matter of fact after going ahead and replacing the main drive belt (42K why not one more bolt). No issue since. Might be a direction look.
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