Changed from Syn3 to Amsoil
#41
12-12-2010, 11:40 AM
As far as running hot,your bikes are not properly tuned with a simple down load,Any one who thinks it is,is mistaken. These bikes are not tuned right from the MOCO,for EPA reasons. When you start making mods,(pipes,AC,) it only makes it worse. A lean bike will run hot. You only think your bike runs good,but untill you have a custom map built,by an expirenced tuner,you have no idea of the bikes true potential. I use a Power Commander 3. I ran a canned map for a long time,and was happy.But when I broke down,and spent the cash to build a custom,advanced map,where both cylynders were tuned independantly,WOW ! Tq went up from 80ftlbs,to 94.HP went from 76 to 91. Its a whole different animal ! This a 95" Motor. But if your riding around,with no kinda tuner,just a down load,your gonna run hot. I see guys all the time,and have friends that their bike pops,backfires on decel,( which is very annoying),and theyre happy campers.Go figure. Not to mention,running a lean eng.,shortens its life. And I am a firm beleiver in Amsoil,the first developer of syn oil for the air force. Been useing it for years. The life is doubled.I go 7,8,and sometimes 10k miles without a change. Never had a prob.
#42
12-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Also,FYI,Harley offered Amsoil to make their product the official HD oil several years ago. Wanting to put HD lable on the bottle.Amsoil said no thanks. All HD lubricants,are made today by another CO,with the HD lable on it. Its not the superior product,that its made to be,just another oil.
#43
12-12-2010, 11:52 AM
Im telling you freind,if all you have is a down load,your bike isnt tuned right. The down load is a waste ! You need a tuner,( PC 3, SE race tuner). When its dynoed,youll find that its rich here ,lean there,its all over the place. The bike will run better,cooler,more throttle response,and better gas mileage. And no more decel pops !
#44
12-12-2010, 02:45 PM
tdarren66, not sure if you read all the posts or not. But if your still trying to help with the heat issue it turned out to be the wrong oil filter. I was given the correct filter for free after I had already changed back to a Harley filter and found that the K&N filter I had bought was the wrong one. My indy shop made a mistake and corrected it for free so no harm done. Also I do have a PCV with the fuel moto map plus the stage one flash.
#45
01-27-2015, 10:43 PM
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Heat is the main factor in oil breakdown. Even a good non synthetic oil will break down under stop and go traffic to a point that damage can result. Synthetic will stand more heat before breaking down. I wouldn't use SYN 3 if it was free, it's a blend of fossil oil and man made product.
Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3, as filed with the Federal Government.
Manufactured by - Citgo Petroleum.
Composition section:
Component
CAS #
Concentration
(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%
(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%
(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%
(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%
(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%
(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%
Item (1) is a Group IV base oil. unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.
Item (2) is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.
Item (3) is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.
However, Item (4) is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.
No information on the group number of Item (5), but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. It's presumed that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. Most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in their premium motor oils and they are not considered synthetics.
(From the MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil: The major base oil constituents in it are the same ones as are listed in Items (4) & (5) above.)
I think the Items (4) & (5) above, are to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. Good for them, but not for us?
Harley-Davidson talks about SYN3 in their advertising as:
"Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic base stocks, ..."
Or not!?!
Since there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have stretched the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydro cracked Group III base?
Exxon/Mobil (Mobil 1 synthetic) lost a lawsuit trying to go after a few oil companies for advertising blends as full synthetic. Mobil lost, and now the oil companies do not have to disclose on the label it contains Group I, II or III base stocks which are all petroleum based.
So it is legal for Harley to market syn3 as a full synthetic, even though it is only 60% synthetic and the rest petroleum based.
Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3, as filed with the Federal Government.
Manufactured by - Citgo Petroleum.
Composition section:
Component
CAS #
Concentration
(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%
(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%
(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%
(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%
(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%
(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%
Item (1) is a Group IV base oil. unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.
Item (2) is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.
Item (3) is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.
However, Item (4) is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.
No information on the group number of Item (5), but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. It's presumed that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. Most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in their premium motor oils and they are not considered synthetics.
(From the MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil: The major base oil constituents in it are the same ones as are listed in Items (4) & (5) above.)
I think the Items (4) & (5) above, are to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. Good for them, but not for us?
Harley-Davidson talks about SYN3 in their advertising as:
"Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic base stocks, ..."
Or not!?!
Since there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have stretched the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydro cracked Group III base?
Exxon/Mobil (Mobil 1 synthetic) lost a lawsuit trying to go after a few oil companies for advertising blends as full synthetic. Mobil lost, and now the oil companies do not have to disclose on the label it contains Group I, II or III base stocks which are all petroleum based.
So it is legal for Harley to market syn3 as a full synthetic, even though it is only 60% synthetic and the rest petroleum based.
I also understand that the blending of polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stocks with approximately 20% of either a diester (synthetic), or conventional oil, is commonly necessary in order to enable the absorption of the additives package into a PAO based synthetic.
If my understandings are correct, Syn-3 is not a true synthetic but a group III , not owing to its being a blend but owing to its being a group III based oil in the first place.
I'd welcome any scrutiny or corrective advice on my interpretation of these matters. I don't have formal training related to the subject so I'm relying on hopefully a correct understanding of some reading I've done. In addition to the technical stuff, I find there seems to be an interesting correlation between the suspected use of group III base oils and the tendency to use the term "proprietary" in product descriptions. Producers of true group IV and group V synthetics tend to shout the contents of their products to the rafters. This serves, no doubt, to justify the expense of products which actually do contain the pricy PAO and Ester base stocks.
Just my 4 cents
.
Last edited by HKMark23; 01-27-2015 at 10:49 PM.
#46
01-28-2015, 04:39 PM
Now tat is way out there:
Also,FYI,Harley offered Amsoil to make their product the official HD oil several years ago. Wanting to put HD lable on the bottle.Amsoil said no thanks. All HD lubricants,are made today by another CO,with the HD lable on it. Its not the superior product,that its made to be,just another oil.
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