dry clutch oil?
#1
06-29-2008, 08:15 PM
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#2
07-04-2008, 09:02 AM
RE: dry clutch oil?
If you are running a chain and not a belt drive you need to run the primary wet.
you can plug the oil lines running to and from the primary case and make sure its seal with a vent of course and add oil to where it comes to just the bottom of the clutch drum basket. I've heard of guys using ATF for the oil.
you can plug the oil lines running to and from the primary case and make sure its seal with a vent of course and add oil to where it comes to just the bottom of the clutch drum basket. I've heard of guys using ATF for the oil.
#3
07-04-2008, 08:52 PM
RE: dry clutch oil?
My 80 WideGlide calls for 1 1/2 pints in the primary chain. I just opened
my primary chain today. My book calls my clutch a dry clutch. The clutch
plates had oil everywhere. The clutch shifts and holds well, so I am not
going to worry about it. I thnk the term dry clutch is misleading. \\;
my primary chain today. My book calls my clutch a dry clutch. The clutch
plates had oil everywhere. The clutch shifts and holds well, so I am not
going to worry about it. I thnk the term dry clutch is misleading. \\;
#4
07-04-2008, 10:39 PM
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RE: dry clutch oil?
thanks guys. \\; sounds like mines ok. \\; urs sounds like mine looks johnb. \\; i just got a little puddle where the return line is in the bottom of the case. \\; guess as long as the plates dont get to wet its ok. \\; i agree though the term "dry clutch" is a little misleading, i work on heavy equiptment some where the terms dry means dry and wet is wet or a bath type setup. \\;
#5
07-05-2008, 06:04 AM
RE: dry clutch oil?
On my oldies, I always isolate the primary from the engine. I have a '79 and a '72 right now. On both of them, I use Barnett wet/dry clutch plates and put the 30W oil up to the bottom of the basket. Just enough to keep the chain oiled. You will see oil everywhere. The discs just don't run in an oil bath. They are made to be oily. I tried the Barnett discs for the first time on the '79. I like them a lot. I can even put the tranny in neutral at a stoplight. They don't change as they get hot and hold fine. My shovels are stock so I don't know how they would work with higher horses. \\; \\; Ken
#6
07-05-2008, 08:30 AM
RE: dry clutch oil?
We are in the process of putting my buddies 80 shovel back together, one think that was over looked when he went with a belt drive {several years ago} and blocked all of the oil from the primaries and ran dry was he did not replace the transmission shaft support bearing to a sealed unit. The open bearing relies on the oil in the primary to lubricate the bearing. The OEM bearing was just about gone and the only thing we can figure that kept the old bearing alive was the leaking transmission seals giving it a little oil. We now have the sealed bearing installed!
#7
07-05-2008, 02:11 PM
Road Master
RE: dry clutch oil?
If you have a stock system with the chain oiler and return, only an ounce or two will accumulate in the chain case. \\; These primaries need to be sealed to create a vacuum to facilitate the oil return. \\; As long as the clutch holds don't worry about a little oil on it. \\; \\; Check your return line occasionally to make sure a loose chain didn't wear a hole \\;in it. \\;  \\;I would not recommend blocking off the oil lines and putting oil in the primary. \\; In my opinion the stock system works fine. \\; I've gotten over 100,000 miles or more off of primary chains and have very little wear on the adjusting shoes. \\; I've had my 72 for 36 years and only had to adjust the primary chain when I disassemble it.
 \\;
Making it an oil bath primary can lead to problems if the oil drops too low. \\; Stretched chain, melted adjuster, heat build up and ruined parts. \\; \\; I even see these problems in Evo's that were made for an oil bath primary.
 \\;
Some claim that isolating the primary is better for the motor. \\; I just change my oil every 800 to 1000 miles. \\; In 36 years my engine is only 30 over and did the last lower end rebuild 20 years ago. \\; I ride it every day and couldn't tell you how many miles are on it. \\; Probably well over 250,000. \\; The original speedo died at 97,000 in 1979. \\; I've had 5 or 6 \\;speedo's since. \\;
 \\;
 \\;
Making it an oil bath primary can lead to problems if the oil drops too low. \\; Stretched chain, melted adjuster, heat build up and ruined parts. \\; \\; I even see these problems in Evo's that were made for an oil bath primary.
 \\;
Some claim that isolating the primary is better for the motor. \\; I just change my oil every 800 to 1000 miles. \\; In 36 years my engine is only 30 over and did the last lower end rebuild 20 years ago. \\; I ride it every day and couldn't tell you how many miles are on it. \\; Probably well over 250,000. \\; The original speedo died at 97,000 in 1979. \\; I've had 5 or 6 \\;speedo's since. \\;
 \\;
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#8
07-06-2008, 11:11 PM
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RE: dry clutch oil?
Filthy: \\; Your recommendation not change the primary oiler system wowed me... especially when you have had the sucess you have had.
 \\;
Then, I see where you change oil in less than 1000 miles...that is an essential and big factor that makes your program work. Most shovels could never get 30,000 miles with the old system.
 \\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\; \\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\; \\;
 \\;
You are way ahead of me in your experience with shovelheads, so I will look to hearing from you in the forum. \\;
 \\;
Later
Hogback
 \\;
Then, I see where you change oil in less than 1000 miles...that is an essential and big factor that makes your program work. Most shovels could never get 30,000 miles with the old system.
 \\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\; \\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\; \\;
 \\;
You are way ahead of me in your experience with shovelheads, so I will look to hearing from you in the forum. \\;
 \\;
Later
Hogback
#9
07-07-2008, 01:18 AM
Road Master
RE: dry clutch oil?
ORIGINAL: HogBack
 \\;\\\\\\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
HogBack, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your bike. \\; An isolated primary in theory is a good idea and should have been designed by the factory. \\; \\; The fact you change your oil often shows that you take maintenance serious and would never let it get low on oil.
 \\;
Unfortunately the shovelhead primary covers are never as oil tight as they should be and many of the conversions I've seen are owned by people that \\;never check the oil level in the primary until they hear noise (too late).
 \\;
Unless a rider is willing to check his oil bath primary frequently, which could be daily if the primary leaks any oil at all, I wouldn't recommend it for the weekend rider. \\;
 \\;
I pondered where the clutch dust travels to for years. \\; I use the original style filters and examine them closely for signs of metal or other debris. \\; I even wash them in solvent to see what drains out of them. \\; I don't believe much leaves the chain housing. \\; When I pull the outer cover I always find a \\;little sludge in front of each ridge in the inner \\;casting where the mounting screws go. \\; Also I find a little in the bottom of the sump near the drain plug. \\; The oil return is higher than the sump so \\;only oil \\;enters it. \\; Of course the inside of the clutch housing is full of crude. \\; I think the dust mixes with oil, forms sludge stays in the clutch shell or \\;falls to the bottom and stays. \\; \\; I pulled my timing cover off last week and the inside looked like it had just been glass beaded (that was in 1980) no sludge, no oil discoloration, just clean. \\; I know I overchange my oil but it's easier than rebuilding it.
 \\;
The fun of owning a Harley is making it your own, whether you like them stock or with all the latest whiz bang technology. \\; Maintenance it the key.
 \\;
 \\;
 \\;
 \\;
[IMG]local://upfiles/65828/6F76A93C12D04023A9D4ABEB789BBCD1.jpg[/IMG]
#10
07-07-2008, 01:59 PM
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RE: dry clutch oil?
ORIGINAL: FilthyLucre
 \\;\\\\\\;
HogBack, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your bike. \\;\\\\\\; An isolated primary in theory is a good idea and should have been designed by the factory. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\; The fact you change your oil often shows that you take maintenance serious and would never let it get low on oil.
 \\;\\\\\\;
Unfortunately the shovelhead primary covers are never as oil tight as they should be and many of the conversions I've seen are owned by people that \\;\\\\\\;never check the oil level in the primary until they hear noise (too late).
 \\;\\\\\\;
Unless a rider is willing to check his oil bath primary frequently, which could be daily if the primary leaks any oil at all, I wouldn't recommend it for the weekend rider. \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
I pondered where the clutch dust travels to for years. \\;\\\\\\; I use the original style filters and examine them closely for signs of metal or other debris. \\;\\\\\\; I even wash them in solvent to see what drains out of them. \\;\\\\\\; I don't believe much leaves the chain housing. \\;\\\\\\; When I pull the outer cover I always find a \\;\\\\\\;little sludge in front of each ridge in the inner \\;\\\\\\;casting where the mounting screws go. \\;\\\\\\; Also I find a little in the bottom of the sump near the drain plug. \\;\\\\\\; The oil return is higher than the sump so \\;\\\\\\;only oil \\;\\\\\\;enters it. \\;\\\\\\; Of course the inside of the clutch housing is full of crude. \\;\\\\\\; I think the dust mixes with oil, forms sludge stays in the clutch shell or \\;\\\\\\;falls to the bottom and stays. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\; I pulled my timing cover off last week and the inside looked like it had just been glass beaded (that was in 1980) no sludge, no oil discoloration, just clean. \\;\\\\\\; I know I overchange my oil but it's easier than rebuilding it.
 \\;\\\\\\;
The fun of owning a Harley is making it your own, whether you like them stock or with all the latest whiz bang technology. \\;\\\\\\; Maintenance it the key.
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
[IMG]local://upfiles/65828/6F76A93C12D04023A9D4ABEB789BBCD1.jpg[/IMG]
ORIGINAL: HogBack
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\ \;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;
I isolated my primary, and but also change my oil at 1000 on the shovel. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\ \;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;The thought of clutch dust back in the motor sounded like a disaster to me. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\;\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;
HogBack, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your bike. \\;\\\\\\; An isolated primary in theory is a good idea and should have been designed by the factory. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\; The fact you change your oil often shows that you take maintenance serious and would never let it get low on oil.
 \\;\\\\\\;
Unfortunately the shovelhead primary covers are never as oil tight as they should be and many of the conversions I've seen are owned by people that \\;\\\\\\;never check the oil level in the primary until they hear noise (too late).
 \\;\\\\\\;
Unless a rider is willing to check his oil bath primary frequently, which could be daily if the primary leaks any oil at all, I wouldn't recommend it for the weekend rider. \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
I pondered where the clutch dust travels to for years. \\;\\\\\\; I use the original style filters and examine them closely for signs of metal or other debris. \\;\\\\\\; I even wash them in solvent to see what drains out of them. \\;\\\\\\; I don't believe much leaves the chain housing. \\;\\\\\\; When I pull the outer cover I always find a \\;\\\\\\;little sludge in front of each ridge in the inner \\;\\\\\\;casting where the mounting screws go. \\;\\\\\\; Also I find a little in the bottom of the sump near the drain plug. \\;\\\\\\; The oil return is higher than the sump so \\;\\\\\\;only oil \\;\\\\\\;enters it. \\;\\\\\\; Of course the inside of the clutch housing is full of crude. \\;\\\\\\; I think the dust mixes with oil, forms sludge stays in the clutch shell or \\;\\\\\\;falls to the bottom and stays. \\;\\\\\\; \\;\\\\\\; I pulled my timing cover off last week and the inside looked like it had just been glass beaded (that was in 1980) no sludge, no oil discoloration, just clean. \\;\\\\\\; I know I overchange my oil but it's easier than rebuilding it.
 \\;\\\\\\;
The fun of owning a Harley is making it your own, whether you like them stock or with all the latest whiz bang technology. \\;\\\\\\; Maintenance it the key.
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
[IMG]local://upfiles/65828/6F76A93C12D04023A9D4ABEB789BBCD1.jpg[/IMG]
I too over change my oil, the vehicles at 2000, as it is easy to remember. \\;  \\; The good news on my bike: I never worry about it. \\;
 \\;
I park it in my shop the same place for the past year and have never seen so much as a drop.... \\; not even dampness around any of the cases. \\;  \\;
 \\;
It takes care of me and I take of it...
 \\;
Hogback \\;
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