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  #1  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:07 PM
mballard mballard is offline
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Default charging system ?

great news,,
finally got the ol 84 to crank,,
what a beautiful sound!
.
a voltmeter across the batter while she's running shows a solid steady 12v,, no more even when the rpm's are increased....diagnosis,,,not charging the battery,,damn!
.
so,, any help with some basic troubleshooting to determine the problem would be appreciated. actually a basic description of how it works and where the parts are would be a huge help too..
.
i just need a place to start!,
thanks,
marion..
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:09 PM
shrice51 shrice51 is offline
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If your '84 is like my '80, the best way to check the alternator...

1) turn ignition off
2) pull the rubber plug connector of the alternator out of the front of the inner primary case.
3) use a volt meter set to the audible ohm mode for resistance.
4) with one lead of the meter, touch one pin of the plug that is inside the inner primary...making sure nothing else comes in contact with the meter lead.
5) take the other meter lead and touch the other pin.


If'n you hear a tone, then the stator winding is intact.

If no tone is heard, then the stator winding is broken.

Back to the tone. If you do hear a tone, now you need to check the windings for being grounded.

Keep one meter lead on one pin, and the other meter lead to the case....(ground the other meter lead)

If a tone is heard, then the stator winding is grounded, even though its not broken, and the stator needs to be replaced.

If no tone is heard, then the stator winding is intact, not broken and not grounded.

With an indicated good stator, you can check output of the stator.

You should have another able person with you for this test.

Leave the plug from the regulator disconnected from the stator in the front of the inner primary.


Set the volt meter to check A/C voltage, 0-50 volt range.

Don't mess around here, you want to check this quickly as the alternator will be running "wild".

Start the motor and set to idle.

Connect the two leads of the volt meter to the two pins in the plug in the front of the inner primary. DO NOT ALLOW EITHER METER LEAD TO TOUCH THE INNER PRIMARY.

I don't remember what the voltage should be, but there should be A/C voltage produced.

Have the other person rev the motor quickly to 1500 rpm. The A/C voltage should jump way up.

Shut the motor down.

If you read high A/C voltage, then the alternator is most likely in good shape, and the problem will be with the regulator.

Back in the day, we bought regulators as if they were a maintenance thing.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Steve-
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:28 AM
mballard mballard is offline
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Thanks Steve...
great troubleshooting steps....
I'll do my best and let you know.
thanks,
marion..
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:51 AM
shrice51 shrice51 is offline
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Marion-

Okay....
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:56 AM
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Excellent instructions shrice51!
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2000 FLTRSEI Stage II 95" Big Bore with Andrews 26 Gear Drives,and a Patriot Defender 2 into 1 Exhaust.
A pick up truck ran the stop sign 2/26/14, and I built a "Screamin' Eagle Road King" out of the salvage.
(And I have a '04 BMW R1200 CL now too.)
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:42 PM
shrice51 shrice51 is offline
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The first two stators I had used a core with the winding (that you could not see) that was an entirely encapsulated unit. I went through two of those before I upgraded to a higher output unit. The new unit was a core with a winding that used a heavily shellacked wire that was not encapsulated. The higher output stator came with a plug end that was the opposite of the lower output stator. This was to prevent mixing a high output charging system with a low output system. So if you bought a high output stator, you needed to buy a high output regulator/rectifier. Can't remember right now, but I think the rotor needed to be changed as well.

Steve-
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrice51 View Post
The first two stators I had used a core with the winding (that you could not see) that was an entirely encapsulated unit. I went through two of those before I upgraded to a higher output unit. The new unit was a core with a winding that used a heavily shellacked wire that was not encapsulated. The higher output stator came with a plug end that was the opposite of the lower output stator. This was to prevent mixing a high output charging system with a low output system. So if you bought a high output stator, you needed to buy a high output regulator/rectifier. Can't remember right now, but I think the rotor needed to be changed as well.

Steve-
No your good with the old rotor the new ones they sell don't hold up as well and are cheaply made so stick with the original . I do the 32 amp conversation all the time on old shovels only difference will be a very slight lower total amp output at high RPM's that's it . Stator & regulator will do you fine .
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:09 AM
mballard mballard is offline
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ok,,
the stator checked out, good continuity between the pins inside the primary, and neither pin to ground. Alternator output is also good,, that running-wild AC was up around 50v or so. I shut it down quickly after i saw that output.
sooo, appears the regulator needs to be replaced. do appreciate those trouble shooting steps.
,
i do have another concern tho...
this is a new project and when i got her, she did nothing,,, ended up being a broken wire on the starter relay, a bad solenoid, and the battery. Finally got the 84-shovel to start a few days ago. But I'm really not satisfied with the "starting-circuit" yet....it just does not "feel" or sound quite right, A bit of a hesitation and it really pulls hard on the battery. The battery voltage drops way below 10 volts when she is trying to start.
.
So i guess either i did not properly charge the new battery (after i added the electrolyte), or the connections/cables (two from the battery and the one from the solenoid to the starter) are not perfect. or the starter is dragging,,,or who know what else? Maybe even a poor connection in the starter switch on the handlebars?
.
my plan is to recharge the battery (3amp setting for couple of days), and then change out those three cables.....and then?......I have no clue? suggestions?
.
thanks,,
marion..
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:16 AM
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Those Shovel starters do pull heavy on the battery.

If it's been sitting a long time, a new AGM battery might be the first step before screwing with the starter.
__________________

2000 FLTRSEI Stage II 95" Big Bore with Andrews 26 Gear Drives,and a Patriot Defender 2 into 1 Exhaust.
A pick up truck ran the stop sign 2/26/14, and I built a "Screamin' Eagle Road King" out of the salvage.
(And I have a '04 BMW R1200 CL now too.)
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2012, 08:07 AM
shrice51 shrice51 is offline
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I would first pull the plugs, open the choke, open the throttle and hit the starter switch. At this time you can also pull the clutch lever in AFTER the engine starts spinning, this will disengage the transmission. The motor should spin like a sewing machine with a known good battery. With a known good battery, this test will tell you if you have any mechanical binding from the starter to the clutch shell, or maybe the primary chain is set too tight, or the starter is just too tired.


Replacing cables is okay, however, high resistance in the starter solenoid is highly possible. There is a large copper ring in the solenoid that makes contact with the two cable studs that get pretty burnt with time/use. The studs ends could be corroded a lot the same as the ring. If you disassemble the solenoid, these parts can be cleaned if they're not too pitted. Otherwise, replace the solenoid.


The starter switch energizes a small relay. The relay closes a circuit from the battery to energize the electro magnet within the solenoid. An energized electro magnet within the solenoid completes a circuit from the battery to the starter.

If you can get the solenoid to kick in (activate,) then the starter switch, relay and wires from the battery through the relay and relay to the solenoid are okay...this is low amperage stuff and should be okay. If you ever hit the starter switch and absolutely nothing happens, the first place to look (and tap) is the starter relay. I don't know where yours is located, but mine is close to the starter on the right side of the motor......typical relay, Radio Shack purchase.


That being said, I've had to change out the relay several times throughout the years as the contacts inside them get corroded too....even a 30 amp relay. I finally coated the contacts with high voltage NO-OX-ID. This stuff is superb, I use it on every electrical contact I have when doing an r&r. Google it!

Good luck!

Steve-

Last edited by shrice51; 04-29-2012 at 08:25 AM.. Reason: need to
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:07 AM
 
 
 
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