Ok guys, this is going to be a VERY long post, so for those of you that don't have the time or patience to read all of it, the TLR version is:

I bought a set of DNA Mammoth Spoke rims from one of their online vendors on eBay (Outlaw Cycle Products). The "completely sealed for tubeless applications" feature leaked from the get go on the rear. Found leaking spoke, barely tightened spoke, stopped leaking. 4 or 5 days later SEVERAL spokes start leaking really bad very suddenly resulting in a completely flat tire within seconds (while I was riding). Tried to fix a flat it just to get the bike home, didn't work. Had to ride the bike home with a flat rear (luckily did not damage the tire, was obviously all slow speed, city streets). Fix a flat completely WRECKED "powder coating" on rear rim where it came out of leaking spokes. DNA refuses to reimburse me for the cost of having my tire switched over to my old rim to send them their defective product back, then reimburse me to have said tire put back on hopefully non defective rim they send back. Will let me ship them the rim with the tire on it. While my bike is then off the road for at LEAST the next month, all most certainly more. Also refuses to sell me another new rear rim and then refund me the cost of the new rim once they were to receive their defective one back. To top it all off, said "powder coating" is already beginning to flake off the hub of the front wheel. Bottom line, I will NEVER buy another product from this company again as long as I live and would suggest none of you do either. This is the very shortened version, I will now tell the full version below. Skip through to see pics of junk wheels I purchased.

So back on March 30th I purchased a set of the really nice looking DNA Black Mammoth Fat 52 Spoke rims off a vendor on eBay. I was told by the vendor it would likely be 6 weeks until I would receive my rims if I were to purchase from him. Before pulling the trigger, I called around to several places across the country to see if I could do anything about the wait time and I received pretty much the same answer everywhere. One place close to me in OH had a rear rim for my '05 Train in stock, but the front would still have to be built so basically same deal. So I went back to the online vendor, Outlaw Cycle Products, and ordered from him. This is the original listing (please note, the listing DOES list the hub and rim as being POWDER COATED): http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-MAMMOT.../141345089514? It turned out to be right at a month and a half when I received them on the 13th of May. Had my new tires installed on the supposedly tubeless rims the next day and finally got around to installing the rims on the bike on the 16th (first Sat after getting them). Noticed when installing them that the rear tire was flat. Hmmmmm..... Aired tire up, looked everything over, didn't notice anything. Decided maybe the spoke sealant needed to be warmed up from riding to really get a good seal. Rode the bike that day, had a great time. Next morning I came out, rear tire was low again. Not cool. I had to work that day (Sunday OT) and didn't have time to mess with it so I put some more air in it and away to work I went.

Kept having the low tire issue, obviously there was a real problem so about Weds of the next week (20th) I decided to take a peek at what was actually leaking when I got home from work. Started spraying the wheel down with Windex (stuff works great for finding leaks, better IMO than soapy water) and there it was... one of the spokes near the valve stem had a sizable leak in it. Huh, wonder if I tighten that spoke just a bit (didn't want to un-true the wheel of course) if it would stop leaking. Grabbed a 7/16" wrench, tightened the spoke nipple just a bit and bam! No leak! "Awesome! No tube now!" is what I was thinking. So I ran it the rest of the week and over the weekend with what seemed to be no issues. Sunday was race day here in Indy (Indianapolis 500) and I was out at that all day having a good time. Hopped on the bike to leave afterward and took off for home which is about 15 mins south of Indianapolis proper. Had JUST got off the interstate (didn't notice any funny, sloppy feeling on the interstate) for about 1 min when I went from having a normal feeling, aired up rear tire to completely flat! "What the ****???" So I got it to an air pump at a Walmart near by and tried putting air in it.... and found that SEVERAL spokes had taken to leaking. Bad enough I could hear the air. Was not a happy camper, knew I was in for a tube at this point for sure (I did not want to deal with the down time of sending it in for the sealing problem, rather just pull the rim, have a tube put in and ride the thing). The rear tire wouldn't hold air for much longer than a min or so. So in an "any port in the storm" moment, I got a can of fix a flat from the Walmart and threw that in it..... which of course didn't work. Does that stuff ever? Anyway, I didn't live but a few miles away and I knew as long as I took it easy, the Train doesn't really weigh enough to tear up the rear tire so I limped it home with the flat rear and the blinkers on.

Next day after work I pulled the rear wheel off (which was dirty as all get out at this point from slinging the fix a flat around) and took it in to my local shop to have a tube put in it. They offer to clean the wheel and tire up for me for like an extra $5. Sure, why not. So I leave it with them over night and while at work the next day I get a call: "Hi, this is Cycle Outfitters. Just letting you know that we did get the tube put in but when we went to start cleaning the wheel and tire up, the fix a flat must have attacked the paint as it's starting to lift off the wheel in places". WHAT???? Paint??? WTF are you talking about?!? "That's impossible, that rim is powder coated, there's no way any fix a flat is going to damage powder coating". Silence. "Uh.... I'm sorry sir... but the finish on this rim really looks like paint.... I agree that fix a flat wouldn't affect powder coating, but the way this finish is flaking off, we're almost positive this wheel isn't powder coated".

You have to be kidding me.... So I went and picked up the rim after work. Didn't look to bad to me at first, was thinking they just didn't really want the work of cleaning the sticky stuff off the wheel. Couldn't blame them... wasn't looking forward to it myself.... So I get the wheel and tire home, take the disc and pulley back off it for the clean up and get to work. Much to my disappointment, the shop wasn't lying.... the "powder coating" really was lifting off! I mean it was flaking off like some kind of cheap rattle can spray job! So here are the pics of what I found after cleaning it up:


One side of the rim, non closeup


Other side of the rim, non closeup.

Well this is what you find when you really look at it:


This is the damaged area around the spoke nipples.


Another shot of it.


One more around the spoke nipples.


Here you can see where the fix a flat must have pooled down in the crevice of the rim. Notice where the raised area for the spokes comes down and meets the part of the rim that holds the tire.


Same here.

I've never seen actual, true powder coating flake off like that. Ever. Way back when, when I wasn't that familiar with powder coating and I had just had the frame on my old bike done, I made the mistake of cleaning off some grease with some brake parts cleaner down low on the left side. Little did I know at the time, brake parts cleaner contains the chemical Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), which is one of the ONLY chemicals readily available that will readily damage real powder coating. And even then, it didn't flake off.... it just hazed up the finish and kind of "softened" it, if that makes sense....

Anyway, needless to say I was no longer happy with just throwing a tube in the rear tire and calling it a day. Now their product had failed not once, but twice and I also feel like the product was sold on false advertising (the flaking off "powder coating"). So I begin to try and rectify the situation by contacting the vendor AND DNA Specialty directly.

When I called DNA directly (the first time), I was directed to "Rick" who is supposed to be their "technical guy". So I relay this guy my story and he basically starts to hem and haw about the fix a flat damaging the powder coating..... I was as polite as I could be but I did inform him that if his product hadn't failed the first time (the sudden "blow out" of the spokes), then the fix a flat would never have been an issue to begin with. To top that off, fix a flat is NOT a corrosive or cleaner of any kind and any real powder coating should not be affected by it in the least. So the conversation ended with him giving me his email address and having me send in pics. Which I did that evening. To this day I still have not heard another word out of "Rick" at DNA Specialty. Quality there Ricky...

Greg at Outlaw Cycle Products was responsive and as helpful as he could be, but at the end of the day, his hands are tied and he is at the mercy of whatever DNA tells him and decides they are willing to do. My gripes are not with him. I have a very long email chain with him via ebay messages. He basically tried to play mediator between DNA and me. What it came down to is that even though DNA's product had failed on me twice, they were not willing to make it right in my eyes. First I had already endured the issues to begin with (and if that rear wheel had let go just a few mins earlier while at speed on the interstate, that could have been ugly). Second, I didn't even bother to try and get compensated for the fact that I had to pay to have the tire dismounted, cost of the tube, and remounted with the tube. But then I was told via Greg that the most they were willing to do was either refurbish the existing rim or send me a new one once they received the old one and had determined it would be better to replace it. Great, except for the fact that I had to be willing to pay to have my new tire dismounted from their defective rim, mounted on my old rim, then pay for it all over again once I got the corrected or new rim back. Not to mention my own labor for their screw up. And God help me had I have been taking my bike in to the shop to have the wheel removed. So they gave me that option OR the option to ship the rim with the tire on and they'd mount/dismount it themselves. Great! Except keep in mind the time it took for me to get the rims in the first place. Shipping from here to CA is at least 4-5 days one way, so I'm out two weeks right there and nothing has even happened yet. Then if they decided to build me a new one... Yea, so I was basically expected to let my bike sit for a month or more during prime time riding season here in Indiana.... I did inform them that this simply wasn't acceptable as we don't get a year round riding season here.... Also there would be the issue of properly packing that beast with the tire on it. Simple enough with just the rim; I kept the original packing box. But with the tire on it too....

Anyway, I informed Greg that those two options were not acceptable to me. I then wanted to know why they wouldn't just send me a new rim and I'd send them their old one back as soon as I got it. "They won't do that. They just won't" is what I was told. Ok.... so, even though I should not have to do this in anyway, how about if I BUY a new rear rim as long as I'm promised a refund as soon as I send them the defective one back. At this point Greg says it best that I contact DNA directly and gives me the contact name of "Star".

So I call Star and while she was very polite and nice to talk to, she did in fact inform me that they would NOT sell me a new rim and refund me for it once they received their defective one back. So I asked her why. "Because you didn't buy it from us". "Excuse me? I was under the impression you didn't sell direct to the public". "We don't". "You have to be *$*#ing kidding me". Also I am told that they will not reimburse me for the cost of playing musical wheels with my tire and that she cannot promise any quicker of turn around time than 1 month if I send the wheel/tire in together. I inform her that none of those options are acceptable to me, that their customer service is second in "quality" only to Comcast and that they're quickly closing that gap and that if I can't rectify this situation somehow to my satisfaction that I would be spreading this story to every forum out there that I could. And so here I am.

Greg told me there wasn't anything else he could do as his hands were tied as well. So my only options were to let my bike sit for a month or more OR shell out more money to play musical wheels with my tire on my dime for THEIR defective product. I decided to hell with it, I'm going to run them till they get to looking so bad I can't deal anymore and then I will pull them one winter, unlace them, pull the wheel bearings, have my powder coating guy here in Indy ACTUALLY powder coat them, then have them relaced by a shop.

I say "them" because at this point I don't even want DNA to "fix" them. I washed my bike the other day and look at what I found on my FRONT rim:


Yep! The so called "Powder Coating" is starting to flake from the hub on the FRONT rim!

Excellent quality there guys.... My fork tube lowers have been powder coated for YEARS, nailed by numerous rocks, sand blasted from the road, etc and not a single chip on them. 3 weeks of riding and the so called powder coating is already starting to flake from the front hub. I bet Rick at DNA would tell me I wasn't supposed to use DISH SOAP and water to wash my rims! Ridiculous.....

So that's it guys.... I know it was long winded, but I wanted to fully explain everything. I have all of the emails between Greg and I saved as well so I can post any of those if someone were interested for some reason.

Bottom line; DON'T BUY DNA PRODUCTS. THEY ARE GARBAGE AND SO IS THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I should have just gone with the Ride Wrights... guess I know why DNAs are cheaper now.

Note to the Mods: I'd like to share this story as much as possible. I think it's important that people know what they're getting into bed with if they choose to do business with DNA. Would you have a problem if I posted this in the other sections of the forum?

 

Thanks for the heads-up, I was just about to bite the Bullet myself on a set of there wheels, but not after hearing the problem and bad customer service you received from DNA.

I hope you get everything worked out and still salvage the rest of the riding season.

 

Really? A negative post for DNA? You really need to use the search function before purchasing, it would have kept your blood pressure down.

 

Actually I did, thanks. And while yes, there were some negative posts, most of them were concerning the wheels not actually sealing properly. There were also plenty of posts from people that said they didn't have any issues. Anyway, if you noticed, I wasn't all that concerned with that particular issue as I was going to just throw a tube in it and run it. My issue is with them claiming that something is powder coated that clearly isn't actually powder coated.

 

Ship the Rim out to CA and have someone from the forum here receive it and throw it through their front window. Then go out and buy a Sinister Wheel. Cut your losses, the aggravation is not worth all the trouble.

Yes, the Sinister wheel is way more money but after reading all the crap about DNA wheels I decided not to follow the footsteps of others and their horror stories.


Mike
NY

 

Hey Mike... I kinda like that idea. Who lives in CA on here? If I were going to switch brands, I'd probably go Ride Wright at this point. But I'm just going to run these until they look too bad, unlace them and have my local powder guy actually do the rims and hubs and have a shop relace and true them. I don't particularly care about the tubeless thing.

 

I hate to say it, but, you get what you pay for...

I have had the same exact experience with those same exact wheels on a customers bike. Unfortunately, the lesson was long and very expensive for the customer.....For that reason I will not sell DNA products (I have an account through my shop) any longer. DNA has the cheapest/poorest quality products and the absolute worst customer service in the industry.

 

I was considering purchasing DNA mammoth spoke black rims for my 2010 Heritage, but decided to go with an 80 spoke chrome front wheel only. I did add a tire tube when I mounted it just in case, no issues so far.

 

That's what I'm thinking. Live and learn. Like I said, I'll fix them myself eventually.

 

You'll probably be fine considering it doesn't look like your wheel was supposed to be "powder coated" any color.... or wait... did all the "powder coating" already fall off?!?!? Good call on the tube. I haven't put one in my front wheel yet but next time I change the tire I will. God help me if it goes out before then like my rear did....