Want to install 8" over forks & need advice
#1
Want to install 8" over forks & need advice
I'd like to install a new front end with 8" over fork tubes. I would like to use raked triple trees rather than cut and weld. Has anyone had this done? I would still like to have the bike track and ride well at highway speeds. A friend has done the 6" over with a 7 degree rake installed and he doesn't report any problems, however the mechanic raped him price-wise for the kit and installation, and then scuffed the fork tubes when installing them. I can find all kinds of fork kits on the 'net but they all come with disclaimers regarding handling. Also, the charts and calculations for the new front end are pretty confusing....
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
#2
Well since you asked .......
I've thoght about it a couple of times but - IMO raked trees just don't look 'right'. Somehow they just make the bikes front end look out of whack. The better approach is to have the frame neck raked by an experienced builder. JMHO
Supposedly the Seeger and AME kits still maintain correct steering geometry after installation. Also they are supposed to be fairly easy to install and both companies offer technical support for the DIYer. I don't have any experience with either company, just what I've read on their websites.
The idea of raked trees has been around a while. I do remember that back in the '70s (sheesh!) mechanics were saying that raked trees were dangerous because they compromised handling by altering rake and trail numbers.
So...... considering all of that; If I want the raked look, I'll build a bike specifically for that look.
JMHO
peace
................. Jim
I've thoght about it a couple of times but - IMO raked trees just don't look 'right'. Somehow they just make the bikes front end look out of whack. The better approach is to have the frame neck raked by an experienced builder. JMHO
Supposedly the Seeger and AME kits still maintain correct steering geometry after installation. Also they are supposed to be fairly easy to install and both companies offer technical support for the DIYer. I don't have any experience with either company, just what I've read on their websites.
The idea of raked trees has been around a while. I do remember that back in the '70s (sheesh!) mechanics were saying that raked trees were dangerous because they compromised handling by altering rake and trail numbers.
So...... considering all of that; If I want the raked look, I'll build a bike specifically for that look.
JMHO
peace
................. Jim
#3
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Raked trees are for correcting the trail on bikes with raked frames. They aren't for use as a stand-alone method of allowing the use of extended forks. They decrease the trail, and on a stock rake frame that decrease will generally be below a safe amount, which can, or maybe I should say will, cause high speed instability. Your buddy with 7 degree trees is a disaster waiting to happen. As soon as a little neck bearing wear, wheel bearing wear, or maybe tire wear reach a certain point, high speed head shake is going to happen. A tank slapper at any speed is no fun. A tank slapper at 80 mph might be deadly. That a mechanic would install these trees is incredibly stupid.
Having said that, there are kits that allow the installation of a lengthened front end, by increasing the rake without cutting the frame. Hopefully, that is what you bud has. Several guys on here have these kits. They are well-made, correctly engineered, and do the job without cutting the frame.
They also look "kludgy", a necessary thing to achieve their purpose. The fork tubes are at a very different angle than the neck post. This, along with the "kludge" of the lower tree assembly, immediately draw the eye to that area. The overall look of the bike is compromised, and the lines do not "flow".
But that's just my opinion. Looks are subjective.
What ain't my opinion is the utter stupidity and foolishness of using simple raked trees on a stock frame. It's dangerous to the rider and anyone around him. As the road cap'n of a group,I have turned away a rider with one of these setups after talking to him about the geometry of his front end. He had no idea of the relationship between rake, trail, and safe handling. He didn't know what his actual trail was, so I did a rough measurement/estimate and figured it to be less than 3 inches.
Here's a link that gives some more details:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
Having said that, there are kits that allow the installation of a lengthened front end, by increasing the rake without cutting the frame. Hopefully, that is what you bud has. Several guys on here have these kits. They are well-made, correctly engineered, and do the job without cutting the frame.
They also look "kludgy", a necessary thing to achieve their purpose. The fork tubes are at a very different angle than the neck post. This, along with the "kludge" of the lower tree assembly, immediately draw the eye to that area. The overall look of the bike is compromised, and the lines do not "flow".
But that's just my opinion. Looks are subjective.
What ain't my opinion is the utter stupidity and foolishness of using simple raked trees on a stock frame. It's dangerous to the rider and anyone around him. As the road cap'n of a group,I have turned away a rider with one of these setups after talking to him about the geometry of his front end. He had no idea of the relationship between rake, trail, and safe handling. He didn't know what his actual trail was, so I did a rough measurement/estimate and figured it to be less than 3 inches.
Here's a link that gives some more details:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
#4
#5
I went through all of this and read up on the subject while building the chopper you see in my sig. I personally would not just go with raked triple trees with anything over a 3 degree rake. If you're wanting to go 8 inches over, you will need a lot more than 3 degrees or you will end up with your trail all screwy and doing a lot of tank slapping in parking lots. I have a 34 degree rake on my frame and only 2 inches over on the fork tubes. This can become a safety issue and at highway speeds when you want her to be as stable as possible. I could sit here and write a whole thread about all the factors that must be considered when raking and extending the front end, but instead I will give you a place to start and you can do like I did and make an educated decision.
Start with this. It will give you your dimensions and some information as to what is considered safe.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
Start with this. It will give you your dimensions and some information as to what is considered safe.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html
#6
I will throw this out there since its being discussed. I have a 07 Fatboy and I just purchased a set of 5 degree trees from Accutronix and a set of 4 inches over tubes to go with some aftermarket lower legs.......I have seen and rode this exact setup on another Fatboy and it seemed to handle just fine. As far as speed goes, I only got up to about 60 mph while riding, but I didnt notice any front end instability even though stock 07 Fatboys have front end wobble at HWY speed anyway.
#7
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#9
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I'll chime in... I put a 14 degree AME kit with 8" over tubes on my Sportster...
I've had it over 100mph and it was steady as a rock...
No one has really said anything negative about how the kit looks on the bike... in fact I get all kinds of compliments on the thing...
I will tell you that it gets real heavy at slow speeds... under 10mph... but nothing you don't get use to... I can stll lay her way over in the curves at speed and she's steady...
I've put about 15k on the front end with no signs of wear...
So I guess its all about what you want to do...
They're some people that feel if you don't cut and weld... well... condsider it high tech as compared old school...
I've had it over 100mph and it was steady as a rock...
No one has really said anything negative about how the kit looks on the bike... in fact I get all kinds of compliments on the thing...
I will tell you that it gets real heavy at slow speeds... under 10mph... but nothing you don't get use to... I can stll lay her way over in the curves at speed and she's steady...
I've put about 15k on the front end with no signs of wear...
So I guess its all about what you want to do...
They're some people that feel if you don't cut and weld... well... condsider it high tech as compared old school...