CANBUS wiring
#21
04-01-2012, 04:36 PM
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They lengthened the wire between between the spine and lights best I can tell. It doesn't look like they took the wiring out of the lights at all. My guess is they cut it then pulled it out of the switches then added the wire. Mount the lights on the forks and get them tight before you solder the extra wire back in. It will make it much easier to mount and adjust the signals if done first.
#22
04-01-2012, 07:55 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
The CAN or Controller Area Network on Harleys uses the same SAE J1939 J2411, J2284 and ISO 11898, etc. standards that have been used in the automotive industry for many years now. Harley didn't go out and reinvent the wheel so to speak . . . they went and purchased the system from Delphi and Delphi isn't going to start from scratch for a company that is peanuts compared to the size of a major auto manufacturer. All this said; as others have mentioned, you do NOT want to be messing with the CAN wiring.
With CAN wiring you need to be aware of two things: broadcasters of RFI/EMI and the ability of the computer system to receive unwanted signals. When a modified wiring harness becomes a tuned antennae for a signal that hadn't been a problem until the wiring was changed . . . NOT good!
With respect to broadcasters: Generally changing anything on the bike that could generate sufficiently high levels of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) or EMI (Electromagnetic Interference); such as replacing Secondary Ignition components like the Spark Plugs, Spark Plug Wires and the Ignition Coil must be done with an eye towards this. For example: Using non-resister spark plugs or non TV suspression Spark Plug Wires (usually solid core wires are a problem as just one example) can result in some very strange behavior(s) from the computer systems on the bike. Also adding radios, and other electronic toys to the bike can sometimes be an issue depending on how well they are shielded and where they (and their wiring) are placed relative to the rest of the wiring and computers on the bike.
With respect to the receiver aspect: Every wire on the bike that is connected to a computer (module) is a potential antennae for RFI/EMI. A good bit of thought goes into: the actual length of the wires on the bike, where the wires are placed, any additional shielding around the wires, and how the wires are are assembled (ex: twisted pair @ 7 twists per foot usually). 99 times out of 100 messing with the wiring will not generate any problems . . . . but when it does (and it may not do it right away) . . . . buckle up . . . cause it's gonna be a bumpy ride trying to diagnose the problem and then figure out how to make the problem(s) go away.
RMI/EMI problems can get very expensive to deal with because of all the labor time that has to be invested into diagnosing the problem (and all of the nonsense that poorly trained technicians try to do to "Fix" it). Most experienced technicians will start by: 1.) Removing any non-OEM parts, 2.) Disconnecting any added toys, and 3.) Replacing the wiring harness if it was modified in any way. All of this can get rather spendy at today's labor rates,
With CAN wiring you need to be aware of two things: broadcasters of RFI/EMI and the ability of the computer system to receive unwanted signals. When a modified wiring harness becomes a tuned antennae for a signal that hadn't been a problem until the wiring was changed . . . NOT good!
With respect to broadcasters: Generally changing anything on the bike that could generate sufficiently high levels of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) or EMI (Electromagnetic Interference); such as replacing Secondary Ignition components like the Spark Plugs, Spark Plug Wires and the Ignition Coil must be done with an eye towards this. For example: Using non-resister spark plugs or non TV suspression Spark Plug Wires (usually solid core wires are a problem as just one example) can result in some very strange behavior(s) from the computer systems on the bike. Also adding radios, and other electronic toys to the bike can sometimes be an issue depending on how well they are shielded and where they (and their wiring) are placed relative to the rest of the wiring and computers on the bike.
With respect to the receiver aspect: Every wire on the bike that is connected to a computer (module) is a potential antennae for RFI/EMI. A good bit of thought goes into: the actual length of the wires on the bike, where the wires are placed, any additional shielding around the wires, and how the wires are are assembled (ex: twisted pair @ 7 twists per foot usually). 99 times out of 100 messing with the wiring will not generate any problems . . . . but when it does (and it may not do it right away) . . . . buckle up . . . cause it's gonna be a bumpy ride trying to diagnose the problem and then figure out how to make the problem(s) go away.
RMI/EMI problems can get very expensive to deal with because of all the labor time that has to be invested into diagnosing the problem (and all of the nonsense that poorly trained technicians try to do to "Fix" it). Most experienced technicians will start by: 1.) Removing any non-OEM parts, 2.) Disconnecting any added toys, and 3.) Replacing the wiring harness if it was modified in any way. All of this can get rather spendy at today's labor rates,
we had a customer keep bringing their CRV in for a TPMS warning light coming, not just the low pressure light but the actual system light. a couple of guys had it and could never find anything but faulty signal interpretation code.. basic test, clear codes road test 5 miles and see if code returns. the writers are taught to ask if any aftermarket accessories have been installed.. this cust always said no, nothing installed. anyways, i end up with the car, clear the codes and i'm sitting there scanning the data and looking at other symptoms just to see if something is f'ed in the abs system or not.. i hear this light humming noise like a blower motor runnning, and i have always as standard practice turn everything off in the car while doing any scanning or diaging.. i checked to make sure AC was off, yeah it was off.. what the hell is that noise.. i start looking around and what did i find, a power inverter mounted in the center console.. those things put out so much RF signals its crazy.. i talked to the customer directly to question him about it.. he said oh yeah, i take it out most of the time when were not using it. i told the writers there was aftermarket equipment in the vehicle because it wasn't at the time.. jeeez, people just don't understand what they're doing with the electronics in todays cars..
the thing is if the owner had of RTFM, he would have clearly seen that it says DO NOT add power inverters or any aftermarket accessories that are not properly shield for RF signals...
another case in point.. a customer has his Acura MDX towed in that won't start..the cust had recently installed aftermarket cabin floor lighting.. basically multiple small leds mounted under the dash that should have been simple install. a co worker next to me couldn't communicate with any modules.. so as diagnostic on a bus sytem, you start disconnecting indvidual modules that are on the bus line until communication comes back. he had every module disconnected except for the pcm, still couldn't communicate.. well it turned out days later, the customer had tapped into some pretty colored twisted wiring for a grd.. well he sent the higher then normal voltage down the line to the PCM, both multiplex units(body computers) and a dash harness.. it was quite expensive to say the least..
#23
01-15-2013, 09:01 PM
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CD LED lighting
So I just attempted to install the 1156 CD inserts on the rear turn signals of my '13 Fat Boy Lo and they do not work at all. I was told by the CD rep that I have CANBUS wiring and that I would not need the stabilizer, but it looks like I do. Interestingly enough, the front (1157) CD inserts work great!
#24
01-16-2013, 05:05 AM
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#25
01-16-2013, 08:04 AM
Stellar HDF Member
CAN bus(s) wiring is data... not electrical. BCM's (body control modules) send electricity to the device that the data request to the BCM is asking for.
If you don't have a shop manual, don't know how to read a shop manual and the required electrical wiring diagrams, or have no electrical experience to speak of, don't mess with anything electrical or you may be in for some very expensive lessons. If your only problem is that you don't have a shop manual, then you will end up paying for about 5 of them the hard way. Get one. Now. That's my advice.
In fact, I would guess that an old school shade tree mechanic could cause enough problems to easily pay for going to school to learn how to work with CAN buss technology.
C#
If you don't have a shop manual, don't know how to read a shop manual and the required electrical wiring diagrams, or have no electrical experience to speak of, don't mess with anything electrical or you may be in for some very expensive lessons. If your only problem is that you don't have a shop manual, then you will end up paying for about 5 of them the hard way. Get one. Now. That's my advice.
In fact, I would guess that an old school shade tree mechanic could cause enough problems to easily pay for going to school to learn how to work with CAN buss technology.
C#
#26
01-16-2013, 08:54 AM
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Appreciate the answer Craig, but not the tone. I do have a manual, I do know how to read a manual, and I do know how to read an electrical diagram. Since the only 'electrical' work planned on my scoot is the addition of the compressor, thought I'd ask a simple question. Do me a favour and keep the holier than thou responses for people who consider you an expert................
#27
01-16-2013, 01:50 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Appreciate the answer Craig, but not the tone. I do have a manual, I do know how to read a manual, and I do know how to read an electrical diagram. Since the only 'electrical' work planned on my scoot is the addition of the compressor, thought I'd ask a simple question. Do me a favour and keep the holier than thou responses for people who consider you an expert................
I will do you a favor and not bother you anymore...
Last edited by cwsharp; 01-16-2013 at 01:53 PM.
#28
01-16-2013, 05:33 PM
Road Warrior
On my BMW - which had a more comprehensive canbus system - i installed a seperate fusebox for extra stuff. No problem at all.
#29
01-16-2013, 06:05 PM
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