Oh I forgot its been bugging me lately they use cheap hardware...

 

Just like the Indian Scout was a Sporty killer? All of those features make it a different product, not a superior product.

 

Really? An aluminium framed 100hp 1200 liquid cooled vs a 500 lb steel framed 70hp maybe sportster. As much as I love evo sportys, they must evolve. And no I don't care what can be done WITH a sportster and money. Any bike can be the fastest with a few grand. Buell proved they can handle power but the frame is its Achilles heel. Young people don't care about heritage to the point most harley fanboys do. They want a bike that runs like hell right off the showroom.
The sportster is Harleys sportbike, so make it act like one.

 

Yes it is a different product because of those features. No one can compete with the Sportster very well so the hope is to make a product that differentiates itself enough for people who want those features. The Octane competes with the Scout. The Scout is a great motorcycle. The arguments you are using to say it is a Sportster killer are the same ones I could use against the Octane with the FZ-09. I wonder why Yamaha even bothered bringing it to market when there is a readily available motorcycle for $1500 less that is 125 pounds lighter and 15 more horsepower already in their lineup? They are different products.

 

The fz09 is a sport. The r1 a supersport.
The fz09 is a triple. The r1 you're refering to is a inline 4
The market is changing. The sportster is no longer a stepping stone to a big twin. Kids who ride sportbikes want cruisers that handle and have power. And they like liquid cooling. The killer is the price point. For the person buying a roadster to ride hard, the octane wins. My point is sportsters need some sport in them.

Basically in the 50s and 60s the sportster was a sport bike. Instead of make it faster and handle better, harley wanted to keep it looking like that 50s I model. So now the bike that should be sporty and bringing young people into the brand, is instead holding on to the past for the sake of its older customers

 

You are confused about a few things but a glaring one is I never mentioned the R1.

 

If your comparing the xsr900 and that whole family then yes. But really I get where you're coming from. I see it as victory going "I take your 1200ccs and raise you an aluminium frame, liquid cooling(the future whether we like it or not) and 25hp." the sportster is hard to compete with but the scout and now triumph is doing a good job at it. Time will tell if the octane does. I want another sportster next... I just want it to perform.

Also there is definitely a reason they made it a 1200, and the same cost. To compete.

 

I can afford to buy any bike I want. I did not want an aluminum frame water cooled scout. I wanted a Harley Sportster. Mine will run faster than I want to ride it.

 

The big twin has evolved or has it really? The ride experience on a Dyna and Softail is almost exactly the same today as it was the day those machines were released.

The Softail came out in 1984 and has had the Evo and Twincam engine correct? Is the riding experience much different between the two?

The Dyna came out in 1991. Same thing, two different engines, same ride experience.

Both of these bikes will likely see the M8 engine next. They are still going to ride just like they have always done.

Harley has attempted to do sporty before, people ask for it, and then they don't buy them, and it always fails. Harley knows who it's customer base is better than any other motorcycle manufacturer. If you think the Sportster needs to become an Octane or Scout you simply don't get it and no amount of explaining will help. HD's aren't for everyone.

 

you are right in a way. the vrod was the answer to the sport cruiser. it's actually a nice bike but, the cost + the work needed to get is sporty is just not worth it. the night rod special is a monster.

the sporty does need to evolve and the 2016 roadster was a step in the right direction, but not enough. the old heads in this forum aren't going to agree with you because they are special. i wouldn't expect many sportster forum folks to agree with you honestly. they like their bikes and will defend them with every possible illogical/irrational reason imaginable or drop a jem like, "i works for me". all of it ignoring the point that the sporty is behind in many many ways.

the sporty and other HDs shine in build quality and customization. those things alone make people love them and form bonds with their bikes. kinda hard to do that with a metric sport bikes that have little to no after market support and will be replaced/discontinued sooner than later. yes the r1, cb, f, gsx/r, etc... will shame a sporty in almost every way... they aren't cruisers....

the scout/octane(same bike), bolt, rnine-t, bonnevile, cb1100, street 750, etc... are all ahead of the sporty... really, only two of the bikes have that "thing" the bonneville (especially the bobber) and the cb1100. sporty is just fun.... it's slow, noisy, crude. the look is timeless, the build quality of the bike overall is far ahead of the competition, no question...... but, it does need an update to stay relevant moving forward.

even the new roadster is the same old sporty with inverted forks up front. you could build it in your backyard with a $3k craigslist 1200 and a Kraus front end or old xr front end. it's still not up to par with the xr1200/xr1200x but, it just looks so damn good. no one is going to admit to that either. i'll say it because i'm not living in some deluded sportster fantasy land and don't give a rats *** what others think.

he's right. saying he "doesn't get it" is just dismissing what we all know is true.

polaris gets it, honda gets it, bmw gets it... that's why the are taking hd sales while hillbillys just run around saying stupid stuff like "if it ain't a harley, it aint a real bike".... vrods are harleys, right? let the hillbilly tell it, the vrod aint a real harley. even though it contradicts the "if it aint a harley" shtick. harley knows they need to change. that's why there are wethead m8s, streets, and vrods. ... poor vrods