Is my Dealer screwing me?
#41
07-22-2014, 01:19 PM
First off, the V&H Short Shots look good, but they rob your low end...as you are finding out pretty big time. That is normal with that exhaust. People buy them for looks and loud, not performance. IOT obtain the low end back you are going to have to get a tuner and play around with it to get the settings right. Do not buy the V&H fuel pak. Go with a good tuner and if you can afford it, go with a Power Vision that is not piggy-backed to the ECM.
One thing I always tell new to Harley riders is ride the bike stock at least a 1000 miles. Then determine what you need. The bike runs really nice and strong in stock form. Once you start modifying it, you have to them make sure you compliment each upgrade to each other as to obtain the performance gains you want. If you listen to a lot of people they will tell you you have to do a stage 1 to get the Sportster to run right. No, you do a stage 1 to gain more power/torque. The power/torque on a stock Sportster is not bad at all. How fast do you want to get to 70 mph? That's about all you gain with a stage 1. Right now you have no idea how great the 48 runs right out of the dealership. Sportsters don't have the heat problems the EFI Twin Cams have (I know). They run lean, but don't burn your legs, etc like a Twin Cam. So upgrading for a heat issue is moot.
IF you want to run the exhaust, be ready to fork out the dollars you will need to get it to run a little better than if it was stock.
EFI Sportsters surge at low RPM (nature of the ECM programing). With the Short Shots you are now compounding that.
My stock (well have Khrome Werks 3" HP Plus with Sound reduction kit slip ons) runs smooth, more than fast enough, and can go all day 80-85 mph.
One thing I always tell new to Harley riders is ride the bike stock at least a 1000 miles. Then determine what you need. The bike runs really nice and strong in stock form. Once you start modifying it, you have to them make sure you compliment each upgrade to each other as to obtain the performance gains you want. If you listen to a lot of people they will tell you you have to do a stage 1 to get the Sportster to run right. No, you do a stage 1 to gain more power/torque. The power/torque on a stock Sportster is not bad at all. How fast do you want to get to 70 mph? That's about all you gain with a stage 1. Right now you have no idea how great the 48 runs right out of the dealership. Sportsters don't have the heat problems the EFI Twin Cams have (I know). They run lean, but don't burn your legs, etc like a Twin Cam. So upgrading for a heat issue is moot.
IF you want to run the exhaust, be ready to fork out the dollars you will need to get it to run a little better than if it was stock.
EFI Sportsters surge at low RPM (nature of the ECM programing). With the Short Shots you are now compounding that.
My stock (well have Khrome Werks 3" HP Plus with Sound reduction kit slip ons) runs smooth, more than fast enough, and can go all day 80-85 mph.
#42
07-22-2014, 08:21 PM
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So yes new sportsters have tach. Clock speedo and trips in one unit. My dealer had also in stalled the cvo breakout gauge on mine with a fuel level sender prior to selling it. (Which has had some issues too) anyway they tuned my bike with the screaming eagle super pro tuner which isn't a piggy back tuner, and from my readings has a ton of capabilities so this is why I think my bike could be running better if it was tuned properly
Last edited by Farmer1023; 07-22-2014 at 08:24 PM.
#43
07-23-2014, 12:05 AM
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They used the pro tuner?! And left you with 15.1 afr?! Go buy the cables, download the software, read the thread on this forum and watch the videos and fix it yourself! After reading that thread I'm more than confident with that machine as long as I don't get ahead of myself and skip a stupid step.
Guys in that thread will help you every bit possible.
I know the principals of buying a "crap" bike suck, but for less than fiftydollars and learning more about your sweet new ride right off the bat, this will be your easiest end game that leaves you smiling all the way to the gas station every seventy miles.
Sorry your dealership experience was less than stellar, I think every one has a little issue. But now you have a sweet tool to make your Harley ownership experience the best it can be!
Guys in that thread will help you every bit possible.
I know the principals of buying a "crap" bike suck, but for less than fiftydollars and learning more about your sweet new ride right off the bat, this will be your easiest end game that leaves you smiling all the way to the gas station every seventy miles.
Sorry your dealership experience was less than stellar, I think every one has a little issue. But now you have a sweet tool to make your Harley ownership experience the best it can be!
#44
07-23-2014, 12:10 AM
Join Date: Jul 2014
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They used the pro tuner?! And left you with 15.1 afr?! Go buy the cables, download the software, read the thread on this forum and watch the videos and fix it yourself! After reading that thread I'm more than confident with that machine as long as I don't get ahead of myself and skip a stupid step.
Guys in that thread will help you every bit possible.
I know the principals of buying a "crap" bike suck, but for less than fiftydollars and learning more about your sweet new ride right off the bat, this will be your easiest end game that leaves you smiling all the way to the gas station every seventy miles.
Sorry your dealership experience was less than stellar, I think every one has a little issue. But now you have a sweet tool to make your Harley ownership experience the best it can be!
Guys in that thread will help you every bit possible.
I know the principals of buying a "crap" bike suck, but for less than fiftydollars and learning more about your sweet new ride right off the bat, this will be your easiest end game that leaves you smiling all the way to the gas station every seventy miles.
Sorry your dealership experience was less than stellar, I think every one has a little issue. But now you have a sweet tool to make your Harley ownership experience the best it can be!
#45
07-23-2014, 12:31 AM
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To get the absolute last bit of juice out of the bike, a dyno would help, butyou'll be a thousand times happier just flashing a stage one supplied tune on her. Enjoy that for a week until you get a couple days to use the smart tune feature. This will bring it in even closer for your bike. The sticky in the efi tech section is a good read once you scrub through some of the bs supplied.
I'm getting my bike ran next Tuesday, ordering the intake and going to start tuning mine. Then after I move past stage one, I will go it again and then have it finished professionally on a dyno.
I'm getting my bike ran next Tuesday, ordering the intake and going to start tuning mine. Then after I move past stage one, I will go it again and then have it finished professionally on a dyno.
#46
07-23-2014, 01:44 AM
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Wow, lots of info.
Newer bikes are running around 15.0:1, or leaner, from the factory. They may have done a little dyno work, but they did not do it right. You can see in the chart, at the bottom, the AFR on a stock 2012 bike.
Or possibly they did not have the sniffer placed correctly in the exhaust.
Either way, you have a few choices-
As far as falling on it's face in low RPM's that is partly because of the pipes (regardless of the tune), but there is an easy fix for that...some Thunder Torque Inserts will reduce the reversion and help get rid of the drop in power at low-mid RPM. They work really well with the V&H pipes.
Check out the following chart...you want to be up close to 2700 or higher, even when cruising.
Newer bikes are running around 15.0:1, or leaner, from the factory. They may have done a little dyno work, but they did not do it right. You can see in the chart, at the bottom, the AFR on a stock 2012 bike.
Or possibly they did not have the sniffer placed correctly in the exhaust.
Either way, you have a few choices-
- Take it back and tell them you want to be running closer to 13.9 in closed loop and even richer in open loop (like 12.5 at WOT).
- Tune it yourself
- Or spend some more green for an easier way to richen up your AFR, like a Power Vision with auto-tune or go with the budget way with the XL-ViED-14's. Since you have already spent the $ on a tuner and a dyno tune, I would try and get it right via them or yourself using what you have before spending more.
As far as falling on it's face in low RPM's that is partly because of the pipes (regardless of the tune), but there is an easy fix for that...some Thunder Torque Inserts will reduce the reversion and help get rid of the drop in power at low-mid RPM. They work really well with the V&H pipes.
Check out the following chart...you want to be up close to 2700 or higher, even when cruising.
#47
07-23-2014, 06:54 AM
Tourer
First off, the V&H Short Shots look good, but they rob your low end...as you are finding out pretty big time. That is normal with that exhaust. People buy them for looks and loud, not performance. IOT obtain the low end back you are going to have to get a tuner and play around with it to get the settings right. Do not buy the V&H fuel pak. Go with a good tuner and if you can afford it, go with a Power Vision that is not piggy-backed to the ECM.
One thing I always tell new to Harley riders is ride the bike stock at least a 1000 miles. Then determine what you need. The bike runs really nice and strong in stock form. Once you start modifying it, you have to them make sure you compliment each upgrade to each other as to obtain the performance gains you want. If you listen to a lot of people they will tell you you have to do a stage 1 to get the Sportster to run right. No, you do a stage 1 to gain more power/torque. The power/torque on a stock Sportster is not bad at all. How fast do you want to get to 70 mph? That's about all you gain with a stage 1. Right now you have no idea how great the 48 runs right out of the dealership. Sportsters don't have the heat problems the EFI Twin Cams have (I know). They run lean, but don't burn your legs, etc like a Twin Cam. So upgrading for a heat issue is moot.
IF you want to run the exhaust, be ready to fork out the dollars you will need to get it to run a little better than if it was stock.
EFI Sportsters surge at low RPM (nature of the ECM programing). With the Short Shots you are now compounding that.
My stock (well have Khrome Werks 3" HP Plus with Sound reduction kit slip ons) runs smooth, more than fast enough, and can go all day 80-85 mph.
One thing I always tell new to Harley riders is ride the bike stock at least a 1000 miles. Then determine what you need. The bike runs really nice and strong in stock form. Once you start modifying it, you have to them make sure you compliment each upgrade to each other as to obtain the performance gains you want. If you listen to a lot of people they will tell you you have to do a stage 1 to get the Sportster to run right. No, you do a stage 1 to gain more power/torque. The power/torque on a stock Sportster is not bad at all. How fast do you want to get to 70 mph? That's about all you gain with a stage 1. Right now you have no idea how great the 48 runs right out of the dealership. Sportsters don't have the heat problems the EFI Twin Cams have (I know). They run lean, but don't burn your legs, etc like a Twin Cam. So upgrading for a heat issue is moot.
IF you want to run the exhaust, be ready to fork out the dollars you will need to get it to run a little better than if it was stock.
EFI Sportsters surge at low RPM (nature of the ECM programing). With the Short Shots you are now compounding that.
My stock (well have Khrome Werks 3" HP Plus with Sound reduction kit slip ons) runs smooth, more than fast enough, and can go all day 80-85 mph.
#48
07-23-2014, 09:42 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Parking lot speed...
....
This can be a new experience for someone used to metrics; they just about all have more evenly balanced powerstrokes than a Harley engine, and even though their high rpm engines may be on the gutless side at 1500 rpm, most of them will happily creep through parking lots and slow traffic at that rpm.
....
This can be a new experience for someone used to metrics; they just about all have more evenly balanced powerstrokes than a Harley engine, and even though their high rpm engines may be on the gutless side at 1500 rpm, most of them will happily creep through parking lots and slow traffic at that rpm.
#49
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
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"EFI Sportsters surge at low RPM (nature of the ECM programing). "
While the surging or stutter is "normal", it is not right. It is a result of too lean a tune in closed loop. It is very easy to get rid of, resulting in increased power, smoother acceleration, and a cooler running engine.
Here is a thread that lists the popular ways to get a Sporty running smoothly-
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...uning-etc.html
For budget conscious you can't beat the XiED products
For the best possible tune, I don't think you can do better than the Power Vision Package with Auto-Tune
Here is a thread that lists the popular ways to get a Sporty running smoothly-
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...uning-etc.html
For budget conscious you can't beat the XiED products
For the best possible tune, I don't think you can do better than the Power Vision Package with Auto-Tune
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