If you don't have a Dyno and want or need to tune the bike by yourself, Tmax is the way to go.. It's a very simple system that utilizes broad band O2 sensors to perform full time closed loop corrections. Before I see the argument that it is not an "Auto-tune system", I'll agree.. It is not. You really need to spend some time understanding the system and general tuning to get the most out of it. Still it has a better chance performing reasonably well for the casual user than the other flash based systems. Map selection is not as critical. The important part is getting the timing table that is close, AFR will self adjust.

The flash systems need close AFR. Even Steve Cole (TTS) admits that there is enough enough of a tolerance stackup in injector flow, fuel pressure, cam timing, intake and exhaust flow that to get the most out of the flash systems dyno tuning is pretty much required.

I'll admit that I've not tried to tune flash system but from what I've seen it's a PITA. To get the AFRs correct, the process requires collecting data editing / smoothing and stuffing back into a map. This task is too much work. Tmax does it on the fly for you while riding.

Both flash based and Tmax systems need to have timing optimized for best performance. I assume that flash based systems can use the spark knock detection to optimize ignition timing where the Tmax has no such system. It's a patented part of the Delphi flash based system. While it's nice to have that capability. A good ear and checking the plugs can cover the advanced part of this type of tuning.

The fact that timing on the Tmax is TPS based and not load / MAP based does have some disadvantages. I expect that mileage can be down 1-2 mpg when touring. The timing is not as well optimized for steady cruise.. TPS timing can cause a bit of a burble when rolling the throttle on and off.

No EFI system is perfect for self tuning yet. There are tradeoffs in each system. Still if you like to change motor configuration and exhaust pipes. Tmax is hard to beat. Once you have a good tune, making minor changes won't require a retune. The Tmax will correct the AFR on the fly.

 

Bwoltz a good read that could change your view as to the ease of flash tuning is the Mastertune Tuning Guide, even Dynojet head people to it as it is that good.

 

I don't have a clue as to what you just said.. Explain the process..

 

He's saying to read the TTS Tuning Guide to understand flash based tuning

 

You should read the Tmax manual.. It's even easier.

I know you guys like the idea of programming embedded systems but I've been doing them on and off since the early 80s..

 

Mate I was just trying to help you up, I have no inclination to climb down. Each to his own.

 

I think I understand where you are going wrong.. The Tmax is not an add on to the stock EFI like a fuel pac or power commander. It's a complete replacement system. On of the reasons the cost is higher than most other tuners.

 

If I was going to take off a Delphi ECM. I would trade up. Not put something on there to dumb it down. Too me, it's like taking of a 44 CV for a super E. Sure it is easier to tune but is it actually better?


IMO a better option, not to be confused with easier: http://pe-ltd.com/engine-control-units.html

 

I like it.. Seems to use the same fueling strategy as the Tmax. Might need to add a cam position sensor tho.. It doesn't look like it can figure out engine cycles on crank only.

 

Wow, my thread became a sticky... Who knew?

So, now almost a year later I guess I really should come back and report what I did, why I decided the way I did and how I feel about it.

Budget and 'Best being the enemy of good' I went with the FP3. All I read seemed good, the features were simple enough. I messed with the demo mode and it looked 'good enough'.

I've had a few hiccups over the year, but nothing really major, nothing I haven't overcome and nothing that would dissuade me from recommending an FP3 to someone else.

I must also state, for the record, that I bought it before realizing that Wide Open Cycles is literally minutes from my house. Had I known that, I would have popped around and gotten HarleyTuner's advice directly, probably ended up with a TTS and a dyno-tune and less stress in the long run. Sadly, I still have not stopped by, making me a schmuck for sure.

So, here's my report:

My first issue was figuring out a tune. Because I have a Bassani exhaust, V&H didn't have a ready made map for me. I chose some V&H pipes that looked similar to mine and started there. It ran decently to begin with, but there was a lot of pop on decel and between shifts.

So, I started Autotuning. This took me a little learning and a few sessions to figure out what I was doing and how the thing worked with my bike... Eventually, I came up with a map that was halfway decent. Eventually V&H updated firmware a couple of times, then updated the iPhone app and gave more control and a few more options.

I have been having a few electrical issues with running lights and low batteries. The FP3 has been invaluable in reading and clearing trouble codes! But, the other day it became a victim of said battery issues... I have it back on my bike this Spring, connected under the seat. I am getting ready to do a little more autotuning as the weather changes. My bike hiccuped on a ride yesterday afternoon (It had been acting a little strange from the low battery stuff) and I think I somehow lost the tune or map. My bike would not idle. Every time I slowed to a stop at a light, it would die. I found a gas station parking lot and turned everything off. Turned the bike back on and opened up the iPhone app. It looked like it had gone back to the stock map, or something... So, I reapplied the autotuned map I had before and this fixed it. I had a little popping on decel (not a lot, just a touch) and went through the app to the decel pop fix thingamajig... Sure enough, it was turned off. I know I had it on before, but reapplying the map may have wiped it (except it's been popping the same since I started her up this Spring). Dialed in a little 'stop the pop' setting and It ran great the rest of the way home.

I will probably run a couple of autotune sessions and take it back off of the bike. I really had it on there to help with the trouble codes and stuff. Now, it seems it's just crappy batteries causing me issues.

There are a number of things I like about the FP3, specifically the live sensor reading and the rather simple interface. There are some more detailed tables and charts I can drill down into. But knowing I know very little, I don't futz! And, it didn't cost THAT much. It has been reliable and easy to set up. So, all in all, no complaints.

As WideOpenCycles said, some of just want to ride. The FP3 has been pretty close to simple enough to let me do that.