New Bike-New Exhaust??
#11
11-20-2014, 09:27 AM
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No one has said anything so far that I could argue against, including CRocks. That said, it is hard not to monkey with the HD exhaust system for some reason. If nothing else, just for a better sound. My previous bike had a stage 1 upgrade with a power commander and professional tune. It ran perfect and had great power. On my '14 street glide I have de-catted stock pipes, SE air cleaner, and V&H slip ons. I went with the V&H Fuel Pak 3 tuner with auto tune and I am more than happy. The downloaded map from V&H ran fine with no decal pop and smooth power. I ran the auto tune a couple of sessions of about 200 miles each and got even better power and smoother idle. Will the FP3 auto tune do as well as a professional dyno tune? No. But if you don't need every single ounce of extra horse power, etc. then the FP3 will get you pretty darn close to perfect. I am sold on the FP3 and the results I get. You did not mention air intake, but my dealer said that no tuner was necessary unless you increase the air intake. The pipes and mufflers won't do much other than sound if you leave the stock intake. You will have higher air flow capability on the outbound side, but if you don't increase the intake flow that won't change much. IMO, you do need to get some sort of tuning done if you change the pipes and air intake. For just slip on mufflers, no need.
Just bought a new (to me) 2014 SGS (2K miles) with SE slip-ons but no air intake.....was planning on adding one and most likely adding a tuner and have my local indy do a dyno and tune. I went full bore with my 03 RK running a 103 kit with 10.5:1, Cams, true duals and race tuner but candidly this new bike with just the slip-ons is pretty close so I'm thinking I'll just throw a SE Stage one filter and have it tuned so I can hit the road and just run......thoughts?
#12
11-20-2014, 09:39 AM
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Just bought a brand new Road King in Vivid Black, love the new bike, I have a question though. I have heard many bike owners say that anytime you modify the exhaust of any bike from stock, you have to add a programmer, or re-map the fuel system to match the subsequent tuning change the free flowing exhaust will add. Is this true?? I would like to add 4.5 inch Vance and Hines Monster Rounds, along with Their power header system. Can I do this without adding a programmer?? Thanks....
Can you do that without adding a programmer?? Well yes, but is it wise? Not IMHO! Why? Your bike is made to meet EPA regulations, which are far from optimum from a performance point of view. By adding a tuner you can correct for that change of mufflers, while also improving the fuelling of your bike so it rides cooler and better. A shrewd choice of tuner will also enable you to make further mods in the future.
However the best advice is to ride it as it is for a while, as you run it in and improve your understanding of the multitude of things you can do! You may find that mufflers are only a small part of your future, so don't rush at making changes.
#13
11-20-2014, 10:59 AM
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If I've typed it once, I bet I've typed it 20 times...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
Here is a thread on an overview of the popular options of tuners-
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...uning-etc.html
#14
11-20-2014, 11:22 AM
#15
11-20-2014, 11:27 AM
Longer answer...
If I've typed it once, I bet I've typed it 20 times...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
#16
11-20-2014, 11:31 AM
#17
11-20-2014, 12:01 PM
#18
11-20-2014, 12:04 PM
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Great post thanks.....just to be clear, SE slip-on's and SE Stage 1 = Need a tuner??
Just bought a new (to me) 2014 SGS (2K miles) with SE slip-ons but no air intake.....was planning on adding one and most likely adding a tuner and have my local indy do a dyno and tune. I went full bore with my 03 RK running a 103 kit with 10.5:1, Cams, true duals and race tuner but candidly this new bike with just the slip-ons is pretty close so I'm thinking I'll just throw a SE Stage one filter and have it tuned so I can hit the road and just run......thoughts?
Just bought a new (to me) 2014 SGS (2K miles) with SE slip-ons but no air intake.....was planning on adding one and most likely adding a tuner and have my local indy do a dyno and tune. I went full bore with my 03 RK running a 103 kit with 10.5:1, Cams, true duals and race tuner but candidly this new bike with just the slip-ons is pretty close so I'm thinking I'll just throw a SE Stage one filter and have it tuned so I can hit the road and just run......thoughts?
Yes, if you go to a high flow intake (SE, K&N, Arlen Ness, etc.) your fuel mixture needs to be adjusted at the very least. The bikes come from the factory running lean to begin with due to EPA regulations and adding airflow will push the mixture to very (possibly damaging) lean condition. As others have stated, the HD downloads add some fuel, but you will still be pretty lean compared to an ideal tune. There are many ways to get there with many good products (SE race tuner, Power Commander, Power Vision, Fuel Moto, Vance & Hines, and so on). Again, Safetyman says it best. You may not damage anything right away, but in the long run you are doing your engine no favors by running too lean (and hot). The best policy is not to do anything to increase intake airflow until you are willing and able to throw in some sort of reliable and well calibrated fuel control adjustment as well.
#19
11-20-2014, 12:19 PM
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Yes, if you go to a high flow intake (SE, K&N, Arlen Ness, etc.) your fuel mixture needs to be adjusted at the very least. The bikes come from the factory running lean to begin with due to EPA regulations and adding airflow will push the mixture to very (possibly damaging) lean condition. As others have stated, the HD downloads add some fuel, but you will still be pretty lean compared to an ideal tune. There are many ways to get there with many good products (SE race tuner, Power Commander, Power Vision, Fuel Moto, Vance & Hines, and so on). Again, Safetyman says it best. You may not damage anything right away, but in the long run you are doing your engine no favors by running too lean (and hot). The best policy is not to do anything to increase intake airflow until you are willing and able to throw in some sort of reliable and well calibrated fuel control adjustment as well.
#20
11-23-2014, 07:09 AM
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Overwhelmed!!
Thanks for the welcome and all the great input guys!! I worked in a full service automotive machine shop for years rebuilding engines, everything from stock, to all-out drag and circle track engines, to blown offshore powerboat engines, my experience with electronic fuel injection and tuning was that it always needed to be adjusted on the dyno to correct fuel map problems. I can only imagine this pertains to the stock Harley injection system as well after mods are made. I am really happy with the performance and power of the bike right off the bat, the 103 is very strong, and I don't want to sound like a squirrel, but I am really just interested in a better, louder sound, the noise doesn't bother me, I happen to like noise!! It sounds like there is a multitude of options I can go with. You all have been very helpful and when I have the new engine broke-in, I will go from there considering everyone's advice!!
