Can a map and a few autotunes be the extent of how you use Powervision?
#21
11-26-2014, 09:42 AM
Down here in SoCal (Los Angeles area) we send everyone to http://www.firebreathingindustries.com/
He did quite a few customers bikes and they all run well. MY buddy did his and I rode it and that thing is great. I have taken my bike to Geoff at Cycle Doctor in Coast Mesa in the past as well. http://cycledoctor.com/
Of course who is the best? No clue.
He did quite a few customers bikes and they all run well. MY buddy did his and I rode it and that thing is great. I have taken my bike to Geoff at Cycle Doctor in Coast Mesa in the past as well. http://cycledoctor.com/
Of course who is the best? No clue.
No one mentioned V&H fuel pak. For what the OP wants to do, I think its probably a good choice.
#23
11-26-2014, 10:53 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Agreed on the sluggishness during Autotunes - I had mine active and forgot about it...couldn't figure out why I was backfiring during cold engine temps and feeling flat when I warmed up...decided to run an AT and voila! Was still logging! Reloaded my previous map and it ran great. DOH!
And FWIW, I keep mine mounted on my bike, I have some of the instruments set up to monitor engine temp, throttle position, and other variables. Just another gadget to tinker with...
And FWIW, I keep mine mounted on my bike, I have some of the instruments set up to monitor engine temp, throttle position, and other variables. Just another gadget to tinker with...
#24
11-26-2014, 11:42 AM
Because I have 12mm oxygen sensors, the auto tuning that I can do is limited to the band that those sensors are capable of reading. As a result, I am still less than totally satisfied with my tune, and the problem is that there are NO certified PV tuners any closer than a 5 hour ride from me. I wish that I had gone with a PCV for that reason. In order for my auto tune runs to be fully maximized, I need to buy the pro tuning kit at just under $500 from Fuel Moto, which I am eventually going to do. Once installed, I should be as able to auto tune as well as any dyno tune will do.....FOR THE AREAS THAT I RIDE IN. The last seven words of that sentence being the point. I do think that there are few substitutes, AT THIS TIME, that are equal to a dyno tune being done by a very competent tuner, but with the right equipment we can get "close enough" that we might not know better. It will require the 18mm oxygen sensors and the pro tune kit though, to fully maximize all that the PV is capable of.
Gripper,
I'm not sure Autotune Pro is going to give you the results you are looking for.
Yes, you will need the 18mm O2 sensors to use the wide band sensors. You have to be aware of what Autotune Pro does and doesn't do.
It does 2 things very well.
1. It adjusts VE's accurately over a wider AFR range than autotune.
2. It will decrease timing based on input from the knock sensor.
It does not adjust AFR's. You need to have a good base map (as provided by Fuel Moto) that has already set AFR's closely, or you're going to have to do a lot of trial and error.
In my experience Autotune Basic does a pretty good job of setting VE's, even though the range is limited (14.3-15.2 AFR). This is mostly due to the large closed loop range of most current HD's. This is adequate for most people. My 2010 RKC ran very well with Autotune Basic tune. If you run open loop it probably won't work as well.
Autotune Pro is accurate over a much wider range (10.0-18.0 AFR). It feels better while making tuning runs as it uses 13.0 AFR for the runs.
Autotune Basic sets AFR to 14.2 and retards timing 4 deg. so the bike often feels sluggish during runs.
Don't expect Autotune Pro to fix all of your problems. As stated above it only performs two functions, but it does those both very well.
Gripper,
I'm not sure Autotune Pro is going to give you the results you are looking for.
Yes, you will need the 18mm O2 sensors to use the wide band sensors. You have to be aware of what Autotune Pro does and doesn't do.
It does 2 things very well.
1. It adjusts VE's accurately over a wider AFR range than autotune.
2. It will decrease timing based on input from the knock sensor.
It does not adjust AFR's. You need to have a good base map (as provided by Fuel Moto) that has already set AFR's closely, or you're going to have to do a lot of trial and error.
In my experience Autotune Basic does a pretty good job of setting VE's, even though the range is limited (14.3-15.2 AFR). This is mostly due to the large closed loop range of most current HD's. This is adequate for most people. My 2010 RKC ran very well with Autotune Basic tune. If you run open loop it probably won't work as well.
Autotune Pro is accurate over a much wider range (10.0-18.0 AFR). It feels better while making tuning runs as it uses 13.0 AFR for the runs.
Autotune Basic sets AFR to 14.2 and retards timing 4 deg. so the bike often feels sluggish during runs.
Don't expect Autotune Pro to fix all of your problems. As stated above it only performs two functions, but it does those both very well.
Missed this one yesterday too. Really good info. Thank you!
#25
11-26-2014, 12:13 PM
Platinum Sponsor
Agreed on the sluggishness during Autotunes - I had mine active and forgot about it...couldn't figure out why I was backfiring during cold engine temps and feeling flat when I warmed up...decided to run an AT and voila! Was still logging! Reloaded my previous map and it ran great. DOH!
And FWIW, I keep mine mounted on my bike, I have some of the instruments set up to monitor engine temp, throttle position, and other variables. Just another gadget to tinker with...
And FWIW, I keep mine mounted on my bike, I have some of the instruments set up to monitor engine temp, throttle position, and other variables. Just another gadget to tinker with...
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
#26
11-26-2014, 12:57 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Keep in mind when you are using auto tune (basic or pro) you are riding your bike out of tune while it gathers the data. And the bad thing is, it's targeting lean conditions across the whole MAP. So if you're mods allow more air (which is the point of performance mods) your bike could be running dangerously lean (depending on your starting MAP). I personally don't know why anyone would want to autotune but to each his own.
#27
11-26-2014, 12:57 PM
You can also use it for lots more functions and diagnostics. It will also work on any Harley it will plug into to read trouble codes with description of the event and reset, do datalogs and find problems with injectors, spark knocks from lean conditions or too much timing bad plugs or plug wire problem, O2 sensor function, look at temps while running and checks nearly all sensors are working. You can't make any changes to the ecm of the other bike. I have found on more than one occasion with the PV crossed O2 sensors, miss firing plugs, and spark knock, on friends bikes. Discovered a front cam off one tooth when trying to autotune with PV. Numbers were off front to back 30%. Ran compression test and had 40#'s more compression on front than rear and rear was correct. Front was advanced tooth. You can do some of this with other flash tuners, but will need laptop on the bike to record or monitor. You can do the basic autotune with out computer on all the major flash tuners, but have to hook to lap top to flash new tune. This is all probably way beyond what most people want to do. You can occupy and spend as much time as you like. Even with all the information it can gather, you still have to analyze it to find some of the problems and do basic trouble shooting. It just tells you where to look.
Last edited by ke5rbd; 11-26-2014 at 01:02 PM.
#28
11-26-2014, 01:03 PM
Platinum Sponsor
You can also use it for lots more functions and diagnostics. It will also work on any bike it will plug into to read trouble codes and reset, do datalogs and find problems with injectors, spark knocks from lean conditions or too much timing bad plugs or plug wire problem, O2 sensor function, look at temps while running and checks nearly all sensors are working. You can't make any changes to the ecm of the other bike. I have found on more than one occasion with the PV crossed O2 sensors, miss firing plugs, and spark knock, on friends bikes. Discovered a front cam off one tooth when trying to autotune. Numbers were off front to back 30%. Ran compression test and had 40#'s more compression on front than rear and rear was correct. Front was advanced tooth. You can do some of this with other flash tuners, but will need laptop on the bike to record or monitor. You can do the basic autotune with out computer on all the major flash tuners, but have to hook to lap top to flash new tune. This is all probably way beyond what most people want to do. You can occupy and spend as much time as you like. Even with all the information it can gather, you still have to analyze it to find some of the problems and do basic trouble shooting. It just tells you where to look.
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