Battery Problems
#1
07-09-2015, 09:04 AM
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Battery Problems
Hello all,
Wife and I were getting ready to go on a ride, battery on our E.G. was almost dead, had lights, but wouldn't turn over, charged battery went on our ride, started fine. Bike sat for 8 days, had to charge battery again. Yesterday, bike wouldn't crank, so I checked battery with volt meter, 12.6 volts with just key off, put battery tender on, after charging, it read 13.5 volts, bike started, again I checked volts with bike running, 15.6 volts, question is, is the battery crapping out? I did take the battery out and cleaned terminals, upon putting battery back in, I made sure cables were tight, the battery is about a year old. Thanks in advance.....Clint
Wife and I were getting ready to go on a ride, battery on our E.G. was almost dead, had lights, but wouldn't turn over, charged battery went on our ride, started fine. Bike sat for 8 days, had to charge battery again. Yesterday, bike wouldn't crank, so I checked battery with volt meter, 12.6 volts with just key off, put battery tender on, after charging, it read 13.5 volts, bike started, again I checked volts with bike running, 15.6 volts, question is, is the battery crapping out? I did take the battery out and cleaned terminals, upon putting battery back in, I made sure cables were tight, the battery is about a year old. Thanks in advance.....Clint
#2
07-09-2015, 09:07 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Nice Handle, I got a 63 292 Stovebolt
The battery is either good or bad and the charging system is either working or not. Running you should be getting around 13.8-15 VDC and around 12VDC off. If you see the difference between on and off VDC then the charging system is working. I would suggest the battery is crapping out if you have a good charging system
The battery is either good or bad and the charging system is either working or not. Running you should be getting around 13.8-15 VDC and around 12VDC off. If you see the difference between on and off VDC then the charging system is working. I would suggest the battery is crapping out if you have a good charging system
#3
07-09-2015, 09:08 AM
Stellar HDF Member
#4
07-09-2015, 09:23 AM
Extreme HDF Member
#7
07-09-2015, 10:09 AM
Club Member
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#8
07-09-2015, 10:10 AM
you should not EVER see anything higher than 14.8 volts ( measured with a "real" voltmeter at the battery)
if you do the VR is duff and it will continue to overcharge and kill batteries.
your other measurements could be "surface charge" in which the battery looks good until you turn something on and the volt reading dives.
the tech board/ electrical has complete charging system checks posted if you don;t have a manual.
you do need a good battery for the checks or you numbers can be skewed and useless.
to the guy who has his battery "draining"....disconnect it and see if it "drains" all by itself- if so, replace.
it is done chemically and can;t be revived.
if the battery is ok ( which means charge it with a charger -not a "tender"- and then load test at autozone) then you can find if it is draining through a circuit by pulling the maxifuse/master circuit breaker or all fuses.
if it drains then we look at the VR which may have a bad diode...we disconnect the wire from the VR and test again.
if you have some electrical smarts an ammeter can be used to look for current flow and a complete check would take 30 minutes- if you are stuck kinda staring at the wires and scratching your head, you can eventually trace the source of the fault by replacing fuses until the fault shows itself.
this can be a little like whack-a-mole but you can deduce the fault
mike
if you do the VR is duff and it will continue to overcharge and kill batteries.
your other measurements could be "surface charge" in which the battery looks good until you turn something on and the volt reading dives.
the tech board/ electrical has complete charging system checks posted if you don;t have a manual.
you do need a good battery for the checks or you numbers can be skewed and useless.
to the guy who has his battery "draining"....disconnect it and see if it "drains" all by itself- if so, replace.
it is done chemically and can;t be revived.
if the battery is ok ( which means charge it with a charger -not a "tender"- and then load test at autozone) then you can find if it is draining through a circuit by pulling the maxifuse/master circuit breaker or all fuses.
if it drains then we look at the VR which may have a bad diode...we disconnect the wire from the VR and test again.
if you have some electrical smarts an ammeter can be used to look for current flow and a complete check would take 30 minutes- if you are stuck kinda staring at the wires and scratching your head, you can eventually trace the source of the fault by replacing fuses until the fault shows itself.
this can be a little like whack-a-mole but you can deduce the fault
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; 07-09-2015 at 12:14 PM.
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Sandstorm29 (02-25-2024)
#9
07-09-2015, 11:21 AM
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Well I left the battery tender on last night, tender showed battery charges, I checked with volt meter, 12.6 volts, bike started just fine, I again checked volts with engine running, 14.6 volts, so I was mistakened earlier when I said 15.6 volts, sorry, I then shut the engine off, two minutes later, she wouldn't crank?? I'm thinking time for new battery. Thanks to all whom responded!
#10
07-09-2015, 11:26 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
My 2 cents and some more...
After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged
Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection.
With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.
The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.
If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)
When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems.
Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in an emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair.
It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.
Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.
After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged
Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection.
With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.
The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.
If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)
When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems.
Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in an emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair.
It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.
Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.