More Compensator Blues
#31
02-19-2017, 12:24 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
PS- did you use the new torque specs?
This issue is also mentioned in post #30...
Last edited by hattitude; 02-19-2017 at 12:28 PM.
#32
02-19-2017, 03:34 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SoCal.....I'm only here for the weather
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I'm sure others will say I'm full of crap but after having many problems with batteries not lasting even 2 years (my last two HD factory batteries did not) I finally fixed my banging/cranking heat soaked start problems.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
#33
02-19-2017, 03:42 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#34
02-19-2017, 06:26 PM
LOL
#35
02-19-2017, 06:34 PM
Well, after a 200 mile ride today. I had a couple of friends listen when I cranked the bike. Also had one crank it while I listened low on the side of the bike. I'm 99% sure it is an issue with the starter. Either the starter solenoid is bad or the jack shaft is. Since I didn't see any damage to the teeth on the Jack shaft, its looking like the solenoid. Cheap parts, at least I can eliminate that part. More to come. LOL
#36
02-19-2017, 07:06 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SoCal.....I'm only here for the weather
Posts: 2,168
Received 578 Likes
on
305 Posts
Well, after a 200 mile ride today. I had a couple of friends listen when I cranked the bike. Also had one crank it while I listened low on the side of the bike. I'm 99% sure it is an issue with the starter. Either the starter solenoid is bad or the jack shaft is. Since I didn't see any damage to the teeth on the Jack shaft, its looking like the solenoid. Cheap parts, at least I can eliminate that part. More to come. LOL
#37
02-19-2017, 07:51 PM
Yes, I read your post. I have a fairly new battery, less than 6 months. When I rebuild the starter, I will also put in much larger battery cables. I have the 95" upgrade to my bike, it has direct drive cams so, they will stay unless. This issue just started about a couple weeks ago or so. Wish the offending part would just break then I would know what it is. LOL
#38
02-20-2017, 07:59 AM
Road Captain
I'm sure others will say I'm full of crap but after having many problems with batteries not lasting even 2 years (my last two HD factory batteries did not) I finally fixed my banging/cranking heat soaked start problems.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
#39
02-20-2017, 10:45 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
I'm sure others will say I'm full of crap but after having many problems with batteries not lasting even 2 years (my last two HD factory batteries did not) I finally fixed my banging/cranking heat soaked start problems.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
After close examination of the comp I refused to believe it was the cause of the problem but rather a symptom. So after replacing another battery and still having the heat soaked starting issues I replaced the starter clutch with an All ***** unit. No real improvement.
In the meantime I had been considering a cam upgrade and after doing some research decided to go with the S&S 551 Easy Starts. I did the upgrade last spring and I have not had one hard start since. Cold or hot the engine cranks over quickly and without the horrible crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!
So here is my reasoning. As the bike ages the motor and electrical system no longer perform at 100%. If everything is in perfect condition the starter gets enough cranking amps from the battery to do its job of turning over the engine. However if any of the components in the firing chain are marginalized, it puts additional strain on the starter. A heat soaked starter will not perform as well and needs more cranking amps to do the same job as a cold starter. The output from the battery is no longer enough to push (turn) the motor over and the slight hesitation is what causes the pushback from the crank. Think of how sometimes when pulling the cord on your lawnmower engine it would pull back hard sometimes and jerk your arm out of its socket? Depending on where on the compression stroke the engine sits when you hit the starter button you run a good chance that anything less than full cranking power and a good response from the starter is going to do the same thing. Crank backs up and you get that terrible noise from the compensator. The compensator didn't cause the problem but it is the victim of the result of the battery and or starter not at 100%.
The fix is a compression release or in my case, the Easy Start Cams. As I said I'm sure a lot of you guys may think I'm full of crap but at 55,000 miles my bike fires up better than it ever has (I bought it with 19K miles) and I don't get any more crash/bang/clang smack a pot with a ball peen hammer noise!.
For a little more than the cost of a new SE Comp (and how many guys have done that only to have the same problem soon after?) I got rid of the problem and get to enjoy the added performance of upgraded cams. WIN-WIN.
Keep replacing your comps or relieve the battery and starter of the burden of trying to push the engine over when it sits high on the stroke. Remove the compression and remove the problem.
I agree that many bikes would benefit from compression release during starting. However, there are a good number of compensator problems on bikes that come from the factory with compression releases.... which function at least as good as easy start cams...
Additionally, there have been many cases (talk to some techs who work in a shop) where a comp is replaced and the visual damage to the old, broken comp is glaringly obvious... there are signs of poor lubrication, spring pack failures, etc.
Glad you found a fix for your bike, I just don't think it's a universal fix for all comp issues...
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