Over the past few days I have been reading a lot of different threads about tuners, header pipes, dynos, slip ons, Stage One, SESPT, PCV, etc...........

I guess I'll ask this from a position of not quite understanding all the different factors involved so here goes and I hope it makes sense.

As I understand it the 2010/2011 bikes are shipped with a cat in the header and also set to run very lean in order to meet EPA standards......now from what I can gather one of the biggest complaints a lot of folks have is the sound on these bikes and also the amount of heat that is given off in the collector area that is causing some discomfort. In order to fix this issue it looks like people are turning to after market headers and slip ons, a dyno tune and slip ons....and usually a freer breathing air filter. No doubt this will accomplish what the rider wants (better sound, performance and reduction in heat) but usually comes at a pretty decent cost.

Another option I have seen quite a few people do is to have the cat gutted from their oem header and from there use some sort of fuel management system to richen their fuel mixture and also do a stage one. Or some just gut the cat and leave it as be(from what I have seen here that is) and run their bikes just like they did prior to the cat removal,

Now I know what I have just said is only a couple of different configurations on the probably many many different ones that people have done to their bikes.

Instead of trying to ask all the questions I have in my head right now I'll throw this one out there and as the thread progresses I'll ask other ones.


My bike is stock right now. I don't mind the sound with the cat in the header as my ears ring enough without a ton of more noise added to the picture. I have not really noticed any uncomfortable heat from the collector area but then again I only have 500 miles on the bike and most if not all the riding I have done has been in late November and December in New Hampshire...come August I may reporting something a lot different lol.

Sooo.............I'm looking at the SE Thunder Street Performance Slip Ons that were designed to work with the cat. I love the look and I think they will give me a sound that is acceptable to my ears and my neighbors at 5 am when I leave for work. So if I decide to go with this setup it will probably accomplish one sliver of the 3 parts -sound in this case (sound, performance, heat reduction).

Now this is the main part of my question in trying to understand how to tune a bike with a cat in the header. If I am explaining this wrong or saying things that don't make sense please correct me. The bike comes from the factory leaned out.....in order to "un-lean" it some sort of fuel management or download needs to be performed as well as an air filter upgrade right? If you have a cat in the header and you richen the fuel mix isn't that just going to make the collector area even hotter?

Or bottom line is it futile trying to tune a bike with a cat in the header in order to have it run richer and cooler? Is there a fuel management system out there that will accomplish this? Or is it yes we can make the bike run either richer or cooler but not both with a cat?


Thanks and hope what I am asking makes sense

PD

 

I will be following this thread. I am at the same point, currently I have only added a set of slip on mufflers to 2011 RKC with the 103. I am waiting to see if the heat will bother me this riding season and if it does then I have to make the decision to go with the fuel moto headpipe or the cat gut out method of the stock pipe, and then of course air cleaner and some fuel management. But honestly I would rather leave it alone and just ride.

 

I've just added Reinhart slip-on's, the Fuelmoto air cleaner and PCV to my 2010 Ultra. The bike is definitely cooler, but won't know if it's cool enough until the weather heats up. If not I'll go with the Fuelmoto headpipe.

 

it should run cooler with just a tune(although the combo of tune and lost cat will reduce heat even more)the downloads are intended for se stuff that it still very restictive and will still be epa comliant,in otherwords still very lean and hot.if plug and play and low overall cost is important pcv from fuelmoto is the way to go.tts mastertune is probably the best tuner but comes with a price.

 

first time your out in 90+ temps caught in traffic and u finally get to move and u hear a bunch of pinging youll know weather or not youve done enough to lower the temps.

 

Hey Port, You won't have to tune your bike if your just going to add slip-on's. Even if you remove the cat, your bike will still run fine with out a tune. Now as far as heat, your right more fuel will cool things down. I was at Laconia this year with my 2010 RK with the cat. It was hot but last year I was there with a 05 RK and that was hot. I think even hotter do to exhaust placement on the 05.

This is what I decided to do. My bike as well as yours is still under warranty. I have changed out my stock slip-ons, I bought a head pipe and had my Indy cut, gut and weld the cat out. Not so much for heat issues as far as comfort, but just to try to make the engine a little cooler running. No need to tune at this point. I'm going to swap out my handlebars with some wild 1 518's for comfort and ride the bike. I'll be out of warranty in Nov 2011, so next winter the performance stuff will happen. No problems with HD warranty issues do to any aftermarket stuff they could have issues with. I'm going to save the $$ and do A/C, Cams, TTS Tuner, dyno.

I think if you think about it, your bike runs good. Mine does, IMO I'm going to make it comfortable, sound good, a little bling, then after the warranty runs out PERFORMANCE!!

 

I think it depends on your location. Those of you stuck in california where you can only get 91 octane gas, it'll ping. I was in multiple half hour or greater stop and go situations with mine after I bought it in 90F weather, it never pinged. We can also get 93/94 octane fuel here though.

Edit: you can run the stock cat a little richer and it isn't going to hurt anything. For extended high load situations most vehicles run richer cat temps than normal anyway. You can have as much or greater effect on cat temp with spark timing adjustments.

 

One thing to remember! No matter what Slipon's you put on your bike, they will be louder if you remove the cat. I wish I had saved the sound clip I did with the Jackpot's on my 08 Ultra Classic. When I put them on my new RK with the cat, It was like I had changed to quiet baffles. I very seldom ride around town in the summer, But the few times I did this past August with the setup I had. I had no pinging or cylinder shutdown from heat. It was hot, but ran fine!

 

to confuse you more, changing either the muffler, or the air cleaner will not make a significant difference in the stock motor to require a tuner... BUT changing BOTH the muffler AND the air cleaner WILL require a tuner of some kind because changing both of those things WILL make the motor run leaner than it does now in stock form.
like you said, the are tuned to run really lean from the factory, so just putting a tuner on and not changing anything will make an improvement.

first thing I did when I got my 2010 FLTRX home was install the Fullsac headpipe, 2010 CVO mufflers (with Fullsac 2" baffles) and the HD Ventilator air cleaner.. along with downloading the TTS MAP for my bike.

In the past I have used the SERT, Thundermax w/autotune, and the TTS MasterTune.
for me the TTS is my favorite.
with their included Vtune software, you don't need to take the bike to have it tuned on a dyno with the TTS (but you can if you want to).

pick the tuner you like best, because any tuner you decide to use will make a huge improvement in your bike!

 

Thank you for the input guys! Pretty informative!

Let me just ask this scenario to see if I understand correctly

1) I want the bike to run cooler and not as lean. I want to keep the stock header with the cat in it for now (I do have a 2010 header with the cat gutted but prefer not to put it on just yet). I'm looking at putting on the SE Street Performance Thunder slip ons that are designed to run with the headers with a cat in it.

So my question is what would I need to accomplish having the bike run not as lean and a bit cooler with the above setup? I think someone mentioned above that adding more fuel to richen things a bit should not add to heat in the collector area....I've heard others say it will as adding more fuel will make the cat run hotter so just a bit confused there.

My guess is to get it to run richer and cooler I'd need a tuner and new air...... a tuner adding more fuel to the mix will cure the lean condition but will it aggravate the other condition? (heat)


Again thanks for the input...trying to learn as I go!

PD