Throttle By Wire Problem
#21
07-24-2012, 05:55 AM
TBW would be fine if it was absolutely reliable. I have no issue with operation but the thought of failure is troubling. A friend in my local HOG group seems to have a lot of trouble. I suggested to him to come to the forum and look for the limp mode threads for some information and experiences of others.
#22
07-24-2012, 06:10 AM
In an earlier post someone said that if it was a real problem the MOCO would do something about it! They have, charge you 163.00 dollars to change the ends of the servo connector!
I got the error code two days before going on vacation, asked dealer to look at the problem. Said that it had to be fixed before taking the trip, and they already have a TSB as Harley knows there is a problem! Next day pick up bike. Bill 160.00 for labor,3.00 for parts.
BTW. I had put dielectric grease on the connector over a year ago when I got the same error code..
I got the error code two days before going on vacation, asked dealer to look at the problem. Said that it had to be fixed before taking the trip, and they already have a TSB as Harley knows there is a problem! Next day pick up bike. Bill 160.00 for labor,3.00 for parts.
BTW. I had put dielectric grease on the connector over a year ago when I got the same error code..
#24
07-24-2012, 06:32 AM
I feel for you guys with these FBW bikes that have issues. There must not be enough failures for HD to send out a recall. It is hard for me to believe that this has been going on since 08. It appears they have not changed the design. It would really suck if the same issue continues 2013. Power is a bikers friend. The thought of twisitng up to merge on the slab and the chance of the bike going limp would be a real concern. Ride safe.
#25
07-24-2012, 03:50 PM
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They will do a recall when someone gets badly injured. Until then its taken care of by an SB on a case by case. There are a ton of threads here indicating what the problem is and how to correct it. Dialectric grease best case before fretting occurs and new pins if need be to correct the issue.
#26
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
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I went into limp mode once. Almost 3 years ago so I don't remember specifics. Mighta had to do with TBW. It was raining pretty hard and don't know if that had anything to so with it. I limped to a Harley dealer. They took a look right away. Added di-electric greese to all the connectors associated with the PC-V, test rode, and sent me on my way. No wait, didn't open a ticket, wouldn't take my money, wouldn't take a tip. Figured the least I could do is go buy a t-shirt. Ocean City Harley in Maryland thank you!!!
Few times lately I've felt my TBW has gotten stuck. Give it a little gas and it revs higher and stays there. Like the throttle got stuck. Then as I sit there starring at it with hands on grips it goes back to a normal idle.
Why did Harley go to TBW? It definitely looks better with no cables showing. As long as it works I'm all for it.
Few times lately I've felt my TBW has gotten stuck. Give it a little gas and it revs higher and stays there. Like the throttle got stuck. Then as I sit there starring at it with hands on grips it goes back to a normal idle.
Why did Harley go to TBW? It definitely looks better with no cables showing. As long as it works I'm all for it.
#27
07-24-2012, 04:47 PM
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#28
07-24-2012, 04:56 PM
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20 second google search found this
This is some must read info for everyone that has had issues with the TBW. This is a service bulletin issued by HD on 1/7/2011 it is bulletin # TT418A: DTC's P2135 & P2101 Theory & Diagnostics. I am going to condense this some but I also believe from my past experiences with my TBW that this also would include the P1510 code.
TT418A service bulletin applies to 2008-Later Touring, Police & Trike Models
Symptoms: Driveability or Performance Concerns; Abnormal or Erratic Mechanical Operation; Intermittent or Erratic Electrical Operation.
Note: Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit DTC's P0120, P0220, P0122, P0123, P0222 and P223 should take diagnostic priority over a P2135 code. If any of these TPS codes exist concurrently with the P2135, they should be investigated first using the diagnostic manual.
The TCA has two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling the actuation of the throttle. The two TPS sensors work opposite of each other. As the throttle plate opens , TPS1 voltage ranges from 0.0-5.0 Volts, while TPS2 voltage ranges from 5.0-0.0 volts. The sum of the two TPS voltages should always measure approximately 5.0 volts. These wire are: TPS1, pin # 37 (BN/V wire) of the ECM, and TPS2 pin #36 (BN/R wire) of the ECM
The TPS1 and TPS2 sensors should never add to more than 5.13 Volts Direct Current (VDC) or less than 4.87 VDC . A sum of voltages out of this range should register a current P2135 code.
Troubleshooting:
It is believed that FRETTING CORROSION is a major contributor of this code. A poor connection at the Throttle Control Actuator (TCA) can affect the sensor voltages reported to the ECM and this will set this DTC. As you can see from the General Information section, the sensor voltage only need to be altered by 0.13 VDC to possibly set the code.
The most common vehicles to have these symptoms are those with more than 8,000 miles (12875 Kilometers) or 103 cubic inch and larger engines. Vibration is believed to contribute to the FRETTING CONDITION.
Repair Procedure:
1. While monitoring the TPS1 and TPS2 voltages on Digital Technician 2 (DT 2), wiggle the TCA [211] and the ECM [78] connectors.
2. If the voltage changes while wiggling the ECM connector , replace the affected ECM terminals (part # 72605-08). These wires are: TPS1, pin #37 brown/violet wire of the ECM, and TPS2, pin #36 brown/red wire of the ECM.
3. If no voltage change is noted while moving the ECM connector , the connection issue could be in the TCA. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part # 72663-11, used in current production) at the TCA connector[211B].
4. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE.
DTC P2101
General Information: The TCA contains two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling a actuation of the throttle. TPS1 & TPS2 are mounted in the TCA. They are connected to the keyed shaft of the throttle plate and used to communicate the throttle plate position.
Each TPS supplies input to the ECM in response to the position of the throttle plate. The ECM activates the motor in the TCA to move the throttle plate, based on signals from the Twist Grip Sensor (TGS). When the ECM send voltage modulations to pins 2 & 3 0f the TCA to move the throttle motor, it checks fo subsequent TPS1 and TPS2 voltage changes. If it does not sense TPS changes it will set this code.
Troubleshooting: First verify that the throttle plate moves freely when engine is not running. If it does not the TCA needs to be replaced.
Poor ECM connections seem to be the most likely cause. Be aware that this issue may be aggravated by the seat pan making contact with the ECM connector. In most cases, this is caused by the installation of an aftermarket seat.
A poor connection at ECM pins #29 & 30 could cause an interruption in voltage to the throttle motor and set this code. Similarly the ECM uses voltage from pin #52 yellow/green wire to supply power used at pins #29 & 30 and could cause the same symptoms.
Repair Procedure:
Identifying the connection issues at this location may be difficult.
1. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part #72663-11 used in current production) at the TCA connector [211B].
2. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE
TT418A service bulletin applies to 2008-Later Touring, Police & Trike Models
Symptoms: Driveability or Performance Concerns; Abnormal or Erratic Mechanical Operation; Intermittent or Erratic Electrical Operation.
Note: Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit DTC's P0120, P0220, P0122, P0123, P0222 and P223 should take diagnostic priority over a P2135 code. If any of these TPS codes exist concurrently with the P2135, they should be investigated first using the diagnostic manual.
The TCA has two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling the actuation of the throttle. The two TPS sensors work opposite of each other. As the throttle plate opens , TPS1 voltage ranges from 0.0-5.0 Volts, while TPS2 voltage ranges from 5.0-0.0 volts. The sum of the two TPS voltages should always measure approximately 5.0 volts. These wire are: TPS1, pin # 37 (BN/V wire) of the ECM, and TPS2 pin #36 (BN/R wire) of the ECM
The TPS1 and TPS2 sensors should never add to more than 5.13 Volts Direct Current (VDC) or less than 4.87 VDC . A sum of voltages out of this range should register a current P2135 code.
Troubleshooting:
It is believed that FRETTING CORROSION is a major contributor of this code. A poor connection at the Throttle Control Actuator (TCA) can affect the sensor voltages reported to the ECM and this will set this DTC. As you can see from the General Information section, the sensor voltage only need to be altered by 0.13 VDC to possibly set the code.
The most common vehicles to have these symptoms are those with more than 8,000 miles (12875 Kilometers) or 103 cubic inch and larger engines. Vibration is believed to contribute to the FRETTING CONDITION.
Repair Procedure:
1. While monitoring the TPS1 and TPS2 voltages on Digital Technician 2 (DT 2), wiggle the TCA [211] and the ECM [78] connectors.
2. If the voltage changes while wiggling the ECM connector , replace the affected ECM terminals (part # 72605-08). These wires are: TPS1, pin #37 brown/violet wire of the ECM, and TPS2, pin #36 brown/red wire of the ECM.
3. If no voltage change is noted while moving the ECM connector , the connection issue could be in the TCA. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part # 72663-11, used in current production) at the TCA connector[211B].
4. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE.
DTC P2101
General Information: The TCA contains two potentiometers (designated as TPS1 & TPS2) and a electric DC motor for controlling a actuation of the throttle. TPS1 & TPS2 are mounted in the TCA. They are connected to the keyed shaft of the throttle plate and used to communicate the throttle plate position.
Each TPS supplies input to the ECM in response to the position of the throttle plate. The ECM activates the motor in the TCA to move the throttle plate, based on signals from the Twist Grip Sensor (TGS). When the ECM send voltage modulations to pins 2 & 3 0f the TCA to move the throttle motor, it checks fo subsequent TPS1 and TPS2 voltage changes. If it does not sense TPS changes it will set this code.
Troubleshooting: First verify that the throttle plate moves freely when engine is not running. If it does not the TCA needs to be replaced.
Poor ECM connections seem to be the most likely cause. Be aware that this issue may be aggravated by the seat pan making contact with the ECM connector. In most cases, this is caused by the installation of an aftermarket seat.
A poor connection at ECM pins #29 & 30 could cause an interruption in voltage to the throttle motor and set this code. Similarly the ECM uses voltage from pin #52 yellow/green wire to supply power used at pins #29 & 30 and could cause the same symptoms.
Repair Procedure:
Identifying the connection issues at this location may be difficult.
1. Replace all socket terminals with NEW terminals (part #72663-11 used in current production) at the TCA connector [211B].
2. BEFORE CONNECTING the TCA CONNECTOR, clean the male TCA pin terminals with a swab and alcohol, and ASSEMBLE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE
#29
07-24-2012, 05:04 PM
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Seems to me that if the MOCO knows that putting the connectors together with dielectric grease fixes the problem, then you'd think they would do it when they're assembling these bikes to prevent the problem in the first place. Guess not, though.
I'm sure it's not the case, but sometimes it really appears that the MOCO is trying really hard to see just how much BS their customers will tolerate.
I'm sure it's not the case, but sometimes it really appears that the MOCO is trying really hard to see just how much BS their customers will tolerate.
#30
07-24-2012, 07:37 PM
Since I started this thread relaying a problem my friend was having with his 2010 FLHTC's TBW, I thought I'd let you know what Harley has decided to do about it. Harley has contacted the service department manager and is sending them the new gold pins to put on my friends bike. I thought those reading this thread might appreciate knowing how Harley is resolving this specific problem. 