Synthetic Oil Not Recommended by Factory in Primary
#71
08-15-2012, 11:40 AM
All CVO models come with Syn3 in all 3 holes so I think your dealer is incorrect.
I had my first 2 services (1000 & 5000) done at my dealer because they were free with the purchase and my dealer used Syn 3 in all 3 holes. Ive since changed the fluids at 7500 to Red Line and at 10,000 just the engine with Redline and thats what Ill continue to use at 5000 mile intervals
I had my first 2 services (1000 & 5000) done at my dealer because they were free with the purchase and my dealer used Syn 3 in all 3 holes. Ive since changed the fluids at 7500 to Red Line and at 10,000 just the engine with Redline and thats what Ill continue to use at 5000 mile intervals
#72
08-15-2012, 12:31 PM
Road Captain
#73
08-15-2012, 12:35 PM
#74
08-15-2012, 12:39 PM
Road Master
Look at the manual for oil specs to be used in each hole (i.e. engine, tranny, primary). Then use an oil that meets the specs for that application. I have never seen any specs that differentiate between synthethic, blend, or pure dino. There are brands of oils (that use syn, blend, or dino) that meet the specs.
People have to get over this paranonia of syn vs dino. They are the same carbon based chain of molecules. The major difference is dino has a much larger molecular distribution (wider range of very short chain and very long chain molecules) as well as branched molecules. The branched and very long chained molecules are the ones that tend to get sheared-off during high shear stress situation in the engine, tranny, etc, which leads to viscosity breakdown. Syn oil tends to have a much narrower molecular distribution of molecules (the chains of molecules are more similar and less really short or really long molecules). This is because, during the manufacturing process they can control this molecular chain-length process to get the length and distribution they want for a particular oil base stock. Typically, syn does not have any branched molecules as they are straight chain.
None of the base oil stocks would ever meet the oil specs without oil additives. This is the real key differentiator between oil brands. I am not going to go into all the different oil additives and what they do here, you can do a search online.
All the dealer or HD should ever state is for you to use the oil that meets the SPECS PER THE MANUAL. If they require you to use a specific brand of oil, then according to Fed Law, they will be required to provide that oil for free to you. If they are changing the specs from the manual they have some issues as well. Next time the local dealer says something crazy like that, ask them to show it to you in the owners manual. If they can not, tell them to shut the F$%#-up then and quit spewing BS around.
Now with all that said, everyone has their own "preferred" brand or type of oil. I have seen a lot of threads on this on this forum. Most of it is usually based on emotional (feeling) and less on actual facts of the oil performance. Being an eng. I like to see facts. So look for studies done on motorcycle oils using ASTM (industry standard) tests to test for Viscosity shear stability(ASTM D-6278), Hi temp/hi shear viscosity(HT/HS ASTM D5481), zinc concentration(Ppm), wear protection (4-ball ASTM D-4172), gear test (FZG ASTM D-5192), oxidation test (TFOUT ASTM D4742), volatility(evaporation, ASTM D-5800), acid neutralization (expressed as TBN , ASTM D-2896), foaming tendency (ASTM D-892), rust protection (ASTM D-1748), wet clutch compatibility (JASO T 904:2006). You want JASO MA2 for our motorcycle wet clutch.
Once you have these specs and compare them with other brands you can then intelligently state which oil is actually the "best".
The fact is, if the oil meets the specs of your owners manual and you follow the maintenance specs per the manual, there is not much difference. They will all work.
Hope this helps.
PS- noticed I never stated which oil I prefer in all this.
People have to get over this paranonia of syn vs dino. They are the same carbon based chain of molecules. The major difference is dino has a much larger molecular distribution (wider range of very short chain and very long chain molecules) as well as branched molecules. The branched and very long chained molecules are the ones that tend to get sheared-off during high shear stress situation in the engine, tranny, etc, which leads to viscosity breakdown. Syn oil tends to have a much narrower molecular distribution of molecules (the chains of molecules are more similar and less really short or really long molecules). This is because, during the manufacturing process they can control this molecular chain-length process to get the length and distribution they want for a particular oil base stock. Typically, syn does not have any branched molecules as they are straight chain.
None of the base oil stocks would ever meet the oil specs without oil additives. This is the real key differentiator between oil brands. I am not going to go into all the different oil additives and what they do here, you can do a search online.
All the dealer or HD should ever state is for you to use the oil that meets the SPECS PER THE MANUAL. If they require you to use a specific brand of oil, then according to Fed Law, they will be required to provide that oil for free to you. If they are changing the specs from the manual they have some issues as well. Next time the local dealer says something crazy like that, ask them to show it to you in the owners manual. If they can not, tell them to shut the F$%#-up then and quit spewing BS around.
Now with all that said, everyone has their own "preferred" brand or type of oil. I have seen a lot of threads on this on this forum. Most of it is usually based on emotional (feeling) and less on actual facts of the oil performance. Being an eng. I like to see facts. So look for studies done on motorcycle oils using ASTM (industry standard) tests to test for Viscosity shear stability(ASTM D-6278), Hi temp/hi shear viscosity(HT/HS ASTM D5481), zinc concentration(Ppm), wear protection (4-ball ASTM D-4172), gear test (FZG ASTM D-5192), oxidation test (TFOUT ASTM D4742), volatility(evaporation, ASTM D-5800), acid neutralization (expressed as TBN , ASTM D-2896), foaming tendency (ASTM D-892), rust protection (ASTM D-1748), wet clutch compatibility (JASO T 904:2006). You want JASO MA2 for our motorcycle wet clutch.
Once you have these specs and compare them with other brands you can then intelligently state which oil is actually the "best".
The fact is, if the oil meets the specs of your owners manual and you follow the maintenance specs per the manual, there is not much difference. They will all work.
Hope this helps.
PS- noticed I never stated which oil I prefer in all this.
#75
08-15-2012, 12:46 PM
Ya know...it's real easy to make fun of the idea of putting engine oil into a primary, but I don't think any of you are lubricant experts. There are lots of things out there that take on new/more uses. For example, a majority of 5 SPD MANUAL transmissions in the 80's used ATF. Who thought THAT made sense!?
#77
08-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Tranny Fluid In Primary
Hello.
My brother has a street glide and he does a lot of burnouts and wheelies and really works a clutch. He is on his third one in 3 years. He tried different clutches and oils each time.
He talked with Barnett about a racing clutch they have.
He installed this and he has added automatic transmission fluid to his primary as the Barnett tech recommended.
He says he has not had any clutch issues since this clutch install and is using the recommended automatic tranny fluid (i think it was a Ford fluid that was recommended).
He says he is completely sold that the automatic transmission fluid is making the difference and he no longer has any clutch slippage.
My brother has a street glide and he does a lot of burnouts and wheelies and really works a clutch. He is on his third one in 3 years. He tried different clutches and oils each time.
He talked with Barnett about a racing clutch they have.
He installed this and he has added automatic transmission fluid to his primary as the Barnett tech recommended.
He says he has not had any clutch issues since this clutch install and is using the recommended automatic tranny fluid (i think it was a Ford fluid that was recommended).
He says he is completely sold that the automatic transmission fluid is making the difference and he no longer has any clutch slippage.
Last edited by Powerwagon64; 08-15-2012 at 01:15 PM.
#78
08-15-2012, 01:40 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#79
08-15-2012, 01:46 PM
Unofficial HDF Chaplain
#80
08-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Unofficial HDF Chaplain