Basically stock? A stage 1, gutted cat, slip ons, VIEDS? And you already have all that stuff done to it? I'm no guru on this subject but since noone has posted yet.....you can do it and I'm sure you'll be fine for a while. I know in carbed dirtbikes, 4-wheelers, and older motorcycles, we would always gut mufflers and change air filters and do all types of cheap mods and they lasted quite a while. Only problem is, you do end up causing damage in the long run and it will not run optimally. I had a V-Star 1100 in 04 and I change the filter and pipes for about 5oo miles before re-jetting the carb. More power and ran okay but once re-jetted, it ran a whole lot more effecient and had more power. As for the FI bikes, I changed the air filter alone on my 10 WG and noticed a little better performance. Then I swapped stock out for a Thunderheader and it woke up quite a bit. Once I had it tuned at the dealer, it ran more effecient, got better gas mileage (not 5mpg, but better), ran cooler, and had more power. I'm sure many ppl will chime in and everyone has their opinions but for the money I paid for the Harleys, I am definitely not going to tune it in some way. I want it to be as effecient as possible. If you plan on trading every couple of years, don't worry about it but let me know so I don't get one of your bikes.

 

For about $300 you could install a Power Commander from Fuelmoto. They install a map for your configuration and your motor is "tuned" across the entire rpm and throttle position.
That being said, there are plenty of guys with a similar set up that you're going to with VIEDs and are perfectly happy.

 

Anytime someone seeks knowledge, that's a good thing. But your questions have been asked thousands of times over the past few years. The correct answers remain basically unchanged.

I suspect from your statements, you don't understand the HD EFI system (several of your comments are incorrect). To me, that means you will become an easy mark and make decisions based not on fact but emotion.

No disrespect intended but you'll need a lot more information to see what I mean...and this format is not conducive to teaching even the 101 stuff.

FWIW, the 2012 bikes do not using AFR - they use lambda.

 

This gets a little deep on how lambda works but it is essentially AFR adjustment:
http://www.bmwicom.net/wp-content/up..._fuel_trim.pdf

The ECU will only adjust within a band allowed by initial program so it cannot exceed a set emissions quantification.

 

I ran mine like that for awhile but the plugs were still pretty white but there was no other indications there was a problem. You'll have to make your own decision on this one.

 

My opinion?

These bikes are already super lean from the factory, adding more air without a corresponding increase of fuel makes it leaner, and that is not a good thing.

Before you spend money on an air cleaner, buy a tuner

It is cheaper than new pistons

 

BamaBoyjc.. i like your sig on the '12 model.. I'm in the same boat..

12limited.. I think what you're missing here with the stock ECM is that it can adjust (take into account slight modifications) to a "certain" degree your lambda tables, VE tables, and timing but it's limited on how far those adjustments can be made by design and it's called (EPA). This is where tuners (whether it be fuel management systems such as PCV and such or flash tuners such as SEPST, TTS, etc)

My suggestion is get it tuned by a reputable tuner. Whether it be a PCV, PV, TTS, SEPST, etc doesn't matter.. just get it tuned..

The rule of thumb with these twins has always been.. if you do one or the other, you're fine as the ECM can learn and adjust. If you do both, then it's learning curve is quite short and the bike must be tuned for efficiency and when I say efficiency I mean not just mileage, but for performance and for heat as well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

No disrepect taken...
Emotion? UMM?
If I am incorrect in my statements, please share how do I get the correct information? LAMBDA as I understand is a way to calculate Air Fuel Ratio with some other factors...calculas calulation. I probably know enough to be dangerous...but I understand that I need more knowledge before I bail off and try to tune myself.

I do not trust what the dealers say any more... Several dealers constantly tell me I need a Tuner but will not or cannot tell me "Why" I need a tuner. They all say "to make it run better"??? Better than what? $1200 better? They look at me funny when I ask them WHY. Folks act like this some vodo... It cannot be rocket sceince and even it some think it is, I can learn it if I can find a reliable source. I think I have delt with harder stuff than this, especially if you talk to some of these goof ***** that work in these shops and claim to know how to do it cause somebody they knew that worked for HD 10 years ago showed them how to do it.
I have rode some bikes with tuners on them. I can feel some difference in power but I swear do not feel that much difference certianally not what I thought was $1200 difference. Besides I am not sure I need to pay to fix something that should have been fixed from the factory - excessive lean condition. Which I think I have resolved with the VIED's or at least partially fixed. I installed the VIED's at about 15K miles and I may have damage to this engine by not doing nothing to it before then. Other touring bikes I have owned...NON HD, you could ride the wheels off them in show room condition and never have to do tuning for the engine to survive.

My dealer had to replace the engine on this bike at 5400 miles...in show room condition stock. Stock exhaust, all cats still installed, I had not touched it at all.
I believe it was due to heat. 5000 mile sync oil change was like black diesel oil.... It sounded like a diesel knocking. They all but insisted on a tuner and dyno tune at this point, I was not sure I was gonna keep the bike for a week more at that point and certinally not gonna spend $1200 on it with them about to replace an engine. They wanted to remove the CAT from the headder and I let them. Warranty covered it all and I was happy about that. MOCO called me and asked if I had idled it for long periods of time due to the inside of the engine was brown and looked like it had 50K miles on it. NO...I rode the **** out of it.

I got the heat down now and it does not knock or ping, it even idles a lot smoother. I am a lot happier with it than before.
My original question...can I add an air filter upgrade without a tuner without destroying the engine in my current configuration? If not then why? Closed loop seems it should hold those settings.
I guess I am just one of them guys that need to know how and why it will or will not work.

Thanks for your intial reply.

 

This is good stuff...
I guess my point is...it being a closed loop system if you went way lean by adding a high flow air filter, the ECM would try to bring it back to the orginal LEAN EPA settings in the tables from the factory. So I understand it would not at least bring it back to the EPA rated lean condition? or could it not put move far enough to get it back to the EPA rated lean condition due to the narrow band O2 sensors?

Right now...(I think)...the VIED device is telling the ECM that I am running too lean....thus it is putting more slightly more fuel to get the correct readings from the Faked out O2 sensors to match the tables in the ECM... I am running cooler now so it must be getting more fuel.

With a tuner we change those settings in the ECM so it can learn to use them and run richer fuel mixture to cool the combustion.

Right? or wrong?