Open or Closed loop?
#2
#3
all depends on what you want to accomplish. You're better off posting this in the PV area of the tuning section
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-by-admin.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-by-admin.html
#6
I run in open-loop with the PV mostly because I have wideband O2 sensors installed for tuning. I monitor Lambda (AFR) in real time and find that AFR stays ±2% most of the time, averaging ±1%, regardless of environmental conditions. The various sensors on the bike--MAP, IAT, ET, etc.--combine info to keep things remarkably close to where you set them in the AFR table. It is more accurate than most people think and the ECM is not running "blind." It also doesn't run a "constant AFR," and in my case it varies from 13.0-14.5:1 depending on the area of operation.
However, if I had the stock O2 sensors already installed I would use them, as they will probably keep AFR even tighter, though likely not enough for you to notice. The downside to this is that you must keep Lambda no lower than .981 (~14.4:1), as below that exceeds the range of the sensors and the ECM won't allow it. If you set it below that value it will automatically revert to open-loop mode.
Some think that running that lean creates unnecessary heat, but my tests with the PCV-AT toggling between normal and richer maps indicates that it makes little difference in ET (Engine Temp. reported by the on-board CHT sensor) or OT (oil temp.).
However, if I had the stock O2 sensors already installed I would use them, as they will probably keep AFR even tighter, though likely not enough for you to notice. The downside to this is that you must keep Lambda no lower than .981 (~14.4:1), as below that exceeds the range of the sensors and the ECM won't allow it. If you set it below that value it will automatically revert to open-loop mode.
Some think that running that lean creates unnecessary heat, but my tests with the PCV-AT toggling between normal and richer maps indicates that it makes little difference in ET (Engine Temp. reported by the on-board CHT sensor) or OT (oil temp.).
Last edited by iclick; 11-26-2012 at 10:39 PM.
#7
I run in open-loop with the PV mostly because I have wideband O2 sensors installed for tuning. I monitor Lambda (AFR) in real time and find that AFR stays ±2% most of the time, averaging ±1%, regardless of environmental conditions. The various sensors on the bike--MAP, IAT, ET, etc.--combine info to keep things remarkably close to where you set them in the AFR table. It is more accurate than most people think and the ECM is not running "blind." It also doesn't run a "constant AFR," and in my case it varies from 13.0-14.5:1 depending on the area of operation.
However, if I had the stock O2 sensors already installed I would use them, as they will probably keep AFR even tighter, though likely not enough for you to notice. The downside to this is that you must keep Lambda no lower than .981 (~14.4:1), as below that exceeds the range of the sensors and the ECM won't allow it. If you set it below that value it will automatically revert to open-loop mode.
Some think that running that lean creates unnecessary heat, but my tests with the PCV-AT toggling between normal and richer maps indicates that it makes little difference in ET (Engine Temp. reported by the on-board CHT sensor) or OT (oil temp.).
However, if I had the stock O2 sensors already installed I would use them, as they will probably keep AFR even tighter, though likely not enough for you to notice. The downside to this is that you must keep Lambda no lower than .981 (~14.4:1), as below that exceeds the range of the sensors and the ECM won't allow it. If you set it below that value it will automatically revert to open-loop mode.
Some think that running that lean creates unnecessary heat, but my tests with the PCV-AT toggling between normal and richer maps indicates that it makes little difference in ET (Engine Temp. reported by the on-board CHT sensor) or OT (oil temp.).
Fuel\Air-Fuel Ratio (Lambda)
20 30 40 50 60 70 80 85 90 100
750.000 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
1000.000 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
1250.000 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
1500.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
1750.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
2000.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
2250.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
2500.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
3000.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
3500.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
3750.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
4000.000 0.939 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.981 0.890 0.869 0.869
4500.000 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.869 0.869
5000.000 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.869 0.869 0.869
5500.000 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.869 0.869 0.869 0.869
6000.000 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.869 0.869 0.869 0.869 0.869
6500.000 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.890 0.869 0.869 0.869 0.869 0.869
Last edited by Reaper22; 11-27-2012 at 05:16 PM.
Trending Topics
#8
Here is the same table converted to Stoichiometric.. Could not get map or rpm columns..
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.8 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 13.1 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8
#9
well here is how my tune was set up, or do I just leave it closed loop? Thanks for your time man... Sorry couldn't get top line moved over on top of column in the correct place..
Regarding your posted tune, the .981 numbers represent the lowest Lambda values the ECM will accept to run in CL. Anything below that (or above 1.02) will force open-loop.
Last edited by iclick; 11-27-2012 at 06:57 PM.
#10
You don't run in closed-loop to tune, but cut it off in the ECM so the O2 sensors can provide info for the datalogs. Once the tuning is done you can optionally turn CL back on, that is if you're tuning with the stock narrow-band O2 sensors. With the optional widebands you have no choice but to tune and run in open-loop, that is unless you switch to the narrow-bands after tuning.
I would post this type of question in the PV sticky thread where lots more people can offer their advice. I tune the old-fashioned way with WinPV and PVTune, but Autotune simply does the entire procedure in the PV itself, starting with turning off CL, datalogging, and compiling the data to produce a new tune. Once that is done it places it in one of the six tune slots available on the PV.
The .981 numbers represent the lowest Lambda values that the ECM will accept to run in CL. Anything below that (or above 1.02) will force open-loop. You might find it better to taper the values a bit from 80-100 KPA, as right now you are coming off about 14.4:1 to ~12.7:1 really quick. From 2000-4000 rpm I would do something like .981 @ 80kpa, .95 @ 85kpa, .92 @ 90kpa, and .89 @ 100kpa. You could stick with .869 @ 100kpa, but I think that's a bit rich since max power should be around .89 (13.0:1). Where did these values come from? Original tune?
I would post this type of question in the PV sticky thread where lots more people can offer their advice. I tune the old-fashioned way with WinPV and PVTune, but Autotune simply does the entire procedure in the PV itself, starting with turning off CL, datalogging, and compiling the data to produce a new tune. Once that is done it places it in one of the six tune slots available on the PV.
The .981 numbers represent the lowest Lambda values that the ECM will accept to run in CL. Anything below that (or above 1.02) will force open-loop. You might find it better to taper the values a bit from 80-100 KPA, as right now you are coming off about 14.4:1 to ~12.7:1 really quick. From 2000-4000 rpm I would do something like .981 @ 80kpa, .95 @ 85kpa, .92 @ 90kpa, and .89 @ 100kpa. You could stick with .869 @ 100kpa, but I think that's a bit rich since max power should be around .89 (13.0:1). Where did these values come from? Original tune?