...and all this time I thought you were.

From what I've read, heard and understand is...

Stainless sheds heat faster than mild steel but I have to ask where does it go? Will it reduce the temp for the rider? I don't know and this remains a mystery to me.

Mild steel with a ceramic coating acts as an insulator thus keeps this dissipated heat from the rider better than Stainless? Again, I don't know.

Understanding we are dealing with low performance motors, not racing motors... the use of mild steel will not hold up to temps above 1500* such as racing motors or turbo charging can emit. Stainless can then you must go to Inconel.

Stainless, when used in extreme heat will heat and cool only so many times before cracking. Now, there's no way a normal Harley will emit this amount of heat or stress from the engine. So, no worries about a stainless pipe cracking.

Mild steel is used by most all factories for longevity reasons but seems to also be hot on the rider. A ceramic coating bottom line reduces the heat to the rider, again, the way I understand it.

I also trust the reputations and believe both companies have done extensive testing on their collector but again, we are dealing with a low performance motor. At the most either collector would only give a 3 or 4 HP gain. Again, I am no expert but this is my understanding.

 

Thanks for posting Jamie... and do understand I am not putting either company on the spot or choosing one over the other here... not my intent.

I do, however, see way too many conversations about the head pipe decisions/discussions simply go away so I would appreciate if the conversation could be kept open to everyone.

Do my above comments, thread above, hold any merit or am I lost?

Are we talking about a fine line between the two or is there really a measurable difference where a nickle isn't chasing a dime when it comes to heat and performance values?

Thanks.

 

Stainless Steel will not absorb heat as easily as mild steel, enough that it can make a signifigant difference in surface temperatures. Ceramic coating does certainly help on a steel pipe, however more importantly if you do not coat a steel pipe it will start to immediately corrode and oxidize (ie. rust). There are many grades of stainless which are used for a wide range of applications, and we used a grade of 304 which we purchase directly from the actual mill and it is manufactured to our specific proprietary specifications. Note nearly every automobile produced within the last 10-15 years uses a stainless steel exhaust system as well as nearly every Japanese motorcycle for the last 15 years. OEM's and aftermarket manufacturers use steel for one reason COST, and the Harley community has simply known steel as the acceptable standard for stock and and aftermarket systems. It is difficult to show in picures or with a description, but if you see our 2/1/2 stainless pipe first hand, the assembly and attention to detail is outstanding.

 

Thanks for the explanation and your time Jamie...

 

As already determined by some of my other rants I am more into heat reduction for the express purpose of extended engine life. I don't know why because I have sold or traded most my bikes before they could ever be called a high milage bike.

So as far as rider comfort, be a man and take the pain has always been my motto..

If the stainless wicks the heat away from the engine better I'm down with it. Having said that I don't know there would be all that much difference between the ceramic coated steel and the 304 stainless. The lab can only take you so far and I believe this situation will call for a seat of the pants evaluation.

I have the luxury of being able to wait for some owner evaluations on the forum. I have worked and welded a fair amount of stainless and can appreciate the extra care that has to taken in the forming and welding operations.

The thing is this will be my last Harley, getting on in years and I don't plan to trade the little jewel now that I have it cooled off. I will be looking at not only at the extra cooling capabilities but at the service life of the pipe.

4 HP and a little extra torque on a cage is negligible but you can feel even that minute amount in the seat of your pants on a bike/trike. It does look as if the Fullsac is a clone of the Fuel Motto and the slight performnce gains will probably be the same. As Jamie said, hard to patent and I really have no dogs in that fight.

Service and communication after the sale means a lot to me and from what I know of him Jamie has always been ready to sell and modify the products he sells to match your application. He was the first one to help us when we were crying for an aftermarket headpipe for the Tri.

Fullsac also has been there for the motorcycle community so what I also will be looking for is just honest evaluations from the Harley owners that buy each headpipe.

I don't think they will be a nickel's worth of difference between the headpipes performance wise but time will tell. I will venture to say that the stainless will shed heat better, as I said I don't care where it goes as long as it gets wicked away from the engine. I got a parade fan blowin on my right leg anyway so how bad can it get.

 

+1 on what Jamie said and besides, lets not forget that he is a “Forum Sponsor” and the pioneer of the head pipe that made our TG’s ride able.

At forum member’s request, Jamie stepped forward and was willing to invest in a relatively small market and produce a specific head pipe for our limited unique application. I for one think that he should be commended and rewarded for that!

 

Thanks for your comment and opinion I'm sure but it's off topic. There has been and will be no attempt to disrespect either party. Both companies have a spotless reputation of research, service and sales.

The discussion was about Ceramic Coating vs Stainless Steel and which would be better for rider heat reduction for the bike and the rider and the reasons behind the development of their collector. Jamie was kind enough to answer some of these questions. I hope Fullsac will chime in and give us a few points as well.

thanks

 

I have no dog in this conversation. I have an 09 TG and heat is really not that much of a problem. If I were to purchase a new head pipe I would follow M3's lead and purchase a Fuel Moto head pipe.

 

Like you Mike, I have no dog in this either... but I am curious as to the differences.

 

Oh’ contraire, my opinions and comments are precisely on target and not off topic! Recently there have been a lot new members with 1 or 2 posts under their belt interested in the remedies available to resolve the heat issue. I am sure that most of these folks are not aware of how we got where we are today.

I NEVER accused, implied, insinuated or suggested in any way that ANYONE was attempting to disrespect either company! Nor was I disrespecting either company. I was simply attempting to provide a little history and inform those not familiar with our on going heat saga that:
“Had it not been for this forum and forum sponsor FUEL MOTO; we would still be without a decent solution to our heat problem and that in MY opinion we should commend and reward Jamie for coming to this forums aid by investing in such a relatively small market”. I believe in giving credit were credit is due; however, I failed to mention in my original post that the proto-type for the Fuel-Moto Jackpot head pipe design came from a member of this forum.

Apparently you were confused by my post, thank you for the opportunity to allow me to clarify.