Theory: why new Trikes foul the plugs, blow smoke, and stop running?
#1
Theory: why new Trikes foul the plugs, blow smoke, and stop running?
had a good discussion in a Sumping thread, but thought we should corral all these thoughts in the Trike section.
here's what happens:
-Trike putters in & out of the dealer.
-Trike never gets took up the road & ran hard.
-Test rides: most folks testing a Trike are NOT going to wring the crap out of it.
-Trikes usually go on several test rides before being sold, most have 100 easy miles on them
-new owner buys the Trike and babies it for the first few miles.
-new owner slowly gets up to speed, in a "high RPM, low Load" condition in 6th gear and cruises along.
so...the Motor is not ran HARD enough to create cylinder pressure and seat the rings during break in.
and it starts blowing smoke and fouls the plugs
ours had ~150 miles at the dealership, and the wife puttered along @ 60MPH on flat land, till it fouled the plugs and stopped running.
Dealer changed the plugs, and Service Writer said to beat on it to seat the rings and clean the cylinders.
here's what happens:
-Trike putters in & out of the dealer.
-Trike never gets took up the road & ran hard.
-Test rides: most folks testing a Trike are NOT going to wring the crap out of it.
-Trikes usually go on several test rides before being sold, most have 100 easy miles on them
-new owner buys the Trike and babies it for the first few miles.
-new owner slowly gets up to speed, in a "high RPM, low Load" condition in 6th gear and cruises along.
so...the Motor is not ran HARD enough to create cylinder pressure and seat the rings during break in.
and it starts blowing smoke and fouls the plugs
ours had ~150 miles at the dealership, and the wife puttered along @ 60MPH on flat land, till it fouled the plugs and stopped running.
Dealer changed the plugs, and Service Writer said to beat on it to seat the rings and clean the cylinders.
#2
To start with the Harley engine has a break-in millage that it should never rev over a certain RPM for the first 500 miles. This is to let the rings seat in and everything align it self internally. This includes the cylinders expanding and contracting on the aluminum case.
More damage is done when someone starts hot rodding things from the start. One big thing that happens is scarring of the cylinder walls on the rear cylinder from heat and blow-by among other reasons.
The best way is to not lug the engine around the first miles. It should be used from 2000rpm up and if possible, kept around 2500rpm for best happy Harley running...... Slowly work the engine up to high RPMs as the millage adds up. Be careful at least up to your 1000 mile service.
Your theory is going from one extreme to the other. You are dealing with an air cooled engine here. Even aircraft engines that are air cooled are run for a period of time after being built. Volkswagen engines that are air cooled are also the same way.
More damage is done when someone starts hot rodding things from the start. One big thing that happens is scarring of the cylinder walls on the rear cylinder from heat and blow-by among other reasons.
The best way is to not lug the engine around the first miles. It should be used from 2000rpm up and if possible, kept around 2500rpm for best happy Harley running...... Slowly work the engine up to high RPMs as the millage adds up. Be careful at least up to your 1000 mile service.
Your theory is going from one extreme to the other. You are dealing with an air cooled engine here. Even aircraft engines that are air cooled are run for a period of time after being built. Volkswagen engines that are air cooled are also the same way.
Last edited by sloufoot; 04-20-2019 at 03:14 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by sloufoot:
SpringerRider (04-22-2019),
TwiZted Biker (04-21-2019)
#3
#4
Harley has to stand behind any problems you may have with a new Harley. Now why would they tell you the wrong way to break in an engine ???
Go ahead and ask anyone who is a mechanic with air cooled engines! But there are some that will get their education the hard way! You do things your way and I hope I never want to buy one of your throwaways !
Yep running the hell out of the engine will put more pressure on the rings. You are saying this will make them seat in quicker. It can also and most time does cause more hot blow-by at the rings that don't have a great seal with the new cylinder wall yet. . Making the score cuts ib the cylinder and possibly the rings even though they are harder than the cylinder walls. Have you ever wondered why there is a preferred crosshatch pattern in the cylinder on the finish honing ??? That is what burnishes the rings to get the fine seal with the cylinder. As it does that the crosshatch polishes mostly away.
If you have a new engine that blows enough oil to foul the plugs most likely you are having an issue somewhere other than the rings.Like how much is being fed through the intake ??? Take a close look at the oil level. If it is full take it down to a half quart low and it will help with the oil coming out of the valve area at the top of the heads into the intake.
You also create excess heat that is a killer of air cooled engines ! The first few hundred miles on that engine lets everything heat up and cool off a few times to find the easy areas to move in like the bearings finding a neutral area to run in in case they were off a thousandth or more during building.
The cylinders are a different material from the case. This means they will expand and contract at a different rate. After a few times they also find a neutral area to settle into. That is one of the big problems with putting a cast or steel liner into an aluminum housing.
I'm not saying lug an engine around at an idle while you are learning to ride. That is bad also. Harley likes from around 2000 RPM to 2500 RPM for just tooling around. You won't lug it down there and you aren't over revving it past a safe RPM also. Yeah go ahead and rev it up a bit, but not driving the hell out of it.
Last edited by sloufoot; 04-21-2019 at 04:30 AM.
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#8
had a good discussion in a Sumping thread, but thought we should corral all these thoughts in the Trike section.
here's what happens:
-Trike putters in & out of the dealer.
-Trike never gets took up the road & ran hard.
-Test rides: most folks testing a Trike are NOT going to wring the crap out of it.
-Trikes usually go on several test rides before being sold, most have 100 easy miles on them
-new owner buys the Trike and babies it for the first few miles.
-new owner slowly gets up to speed, in a "high RPM, low Load" condition in 6th gear and cruises along.
so...the Motor is not ran HARD enough to create cylinder pressure and seat the rings during break in.
and it starts blowing smoke and fouls the plugs
ours had ~150 miles at the dealership, and the wife puttered along @ 60MPH on flat land, till it fouled the plugs and stopped running.
Dealer changed the plugs, and Service Writer said to beat on it to seat the rings and clean the cylinders.
here's what happens:
-Trike putters in & out of the dealer.
-Trike never gets took up the road & ran hard.
-Test rides: most folks testing a Trike are NOT going to wring the crap out of it.
-Trikes usually go on several test rides before being sold, most have 100 easy miles on them
-new owner buys the Trike and babies it for the first few miles.
-new owner slowly gets up to speed, in a "high RPM, low Load" condition in 6th gear and cruises along.
so...the Motor is not ran HARD enough to create cylinder pressure and seat the rings during break in.
and it starts blowing smoke and fouls the plugs
ours had ~150 miles at the dealership, and the wife puttered along @ 60MPH on flat land, till it fouled the plugs and stopped running.
Dealer changed the plugs, and Service Writer said to beat on it to seat the rings and clean the cylinders.
#9
As have I and I agree. Break em in fast' it will run fast. What 04ctd said is still a load of crap.
#10
Here is an interesting article about engine break in procedures.
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm