What I'm attempting to do here is accumulate all the cam questions into one thread thus the title... Another Cam Thread. See if your questions are answered here.

The problem that faces us all, when choosing the correct cam, is what will work with our individual bike modifications, what and how we ride.

Our riding style can be solo, two up, with or without a trailer or any combination. Our motor modifications vary as well. Most of us with a TG have a 103 motor. If we went new cams we probably already have a catless head pipe, mufflers of some sort and an open style breather.

Let's narrow a few things down. Catless head pipe. This could mean that you gutted your stock head pipe or purchased aftermarket. If you stayed with the factory style 2-1-2 head pipe you will keep more bottom end torque which is what a heavy trike needs rather than going with the true duals. A factory head pipe that is gutted is a good head pipe and will work very well. It will radiate a little more heat than an aftermarket pipe but will fit anyone's budget.

The aftermarket head pipe will have a CAD built collector which will give you an advertised bolt on 4 to 5 extra ft lbs of torque and horse power. It will be a cooler header due to some sort of coating if you purchase a coating. This coating is normally ceramic and will hold the head in the tubing interior rather than radiate it to the outside.

The slip on mufflers are important to your bottom end torque and noise level or tone comfort until you get over a 2.0 baffle. Anything over a 2.0 is difficult to tune on the bottom end to mid range and is difficult to stop decel popping due to exhaust reversion. That's where the pipes suck in cold air during decel, mix with the unburned exhaust gases and are ignited causing a POW when you are slowing down.

The air cleaner up to 2013 is only good to so many HP. About 80 to 90 HP if that so if you want to pull in more air for more HP you need a Stage 1 air cleaner. The 2014 and up air cleaners are good up to 100 HP unless you change to a mid to high lift cam profile which needs more air. The motor will want to breath. If you choke it off with a restricted air cleaner then don't install the cams.

Finally we come to "The Tune"

Oh yes, the dreaded tuner conversation that will take good people and turn them into evil minded devils.. (Of course I'm just kidding). However there are strong opinions on (1), the how and (2) the what with.

Tuning will complete the Stage 1 process before installing cams. When you install cams it becomes a Stage II.

IMO... IN MY OPINION and to get the best bang for your buck you should do one of the following.

1. Do your research and pick the tuning device yourself. Hand the bike to a professional tuner in your area after you ask "everyone" who's the best in town who uses your tuner and enjoy the bike. Even if the tune isn't perfect the ECM will learn how you ride and what your motor wants. So, just like a car computer... it will adapt as you ride and reprogram itself with each key on/key off event.

2. Tune the bike yourself. If you chose this route then you will need to know something about WHAT A TUNE IS AND WHICH TUNING DEVICE YOU SHOULD USE. Do your homework. Don't just go buy a flash or bolt on device because it is the cheapest or it's the one that your Uncle Bob used on his bike. Do your research, ask questions, feel confident.

Which one is the easiest to use or has the fewest complaint.

Who do you know that did this to their bike?

Can you go talk to him and get some feedback?

Can he help you?

Can you find good written material with easy to understand directions?

THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION, DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO LEARN AND TUNE IT YOURSELF?

The pricing on tuning devices are about the same however the individual tuning devices are not. They are very different.

This is where MY OPINION stops. Do your own research, it's your money... don't be swayed by hearsay. Once again... If you chose the direct route and become a Road Warrior like me and many others then you need to learn something about what makes a good tune and how the individual facets of a tune work together.


Now, cams...

You can search back through years of threads and posts here to find the same question over and over and over... What cam should I run? What will give me the best bang for my buck? What gives the best overall performance? What will give me the best bottom torque? What cam will give you the best performance and gas mileage. What cam will line your pocket with $100 bills??

Answer... Assuming you did the air cleaner, catless head pipe and at least a 2.0 baffle there are several cams that will fit the bill nicely. I haven't found any $100 bills mysteriously in my pocket yet but still hopeful.

What I want to do here is show you the difference in what makes a good cam for a Trike and why. Take a look at this cam comparison graph. It's the 245E vs the S&S 551EZ cams. I've been asked over and over again what cam gives the best bottom end and why I went with the 254E cam. The answer is because it fits my riding style and can handle the Trike. It's not necessarily the best bottom end cam. The S&S 551EZ cam is.

The following dyno chart was made on a 2014 RK with an AC, catless head pipe and 2.0 slip on mufflers. The only difference is the cam profile. Do you see how the S&S 551 has more bottom end torque? (The Blue line) The 254 is the green line.






Yes, more bottom end torque but after 4300 RPM's it falls off a cliff. So do the 255 cams (not shown) although the 255 cams can't touch either torque profile here.



OK, but I said I wanted to show everyone why I chose the 254E cam. That's because I wanted bottom end, mid range and high RPM torque just like you and although the 511's are better down low the 254 hangs in there longer.

When you choose a cam you usually get two of the RPM ranges covered. With the 254E cam you get as close to all three as possible, get good power with manageable gas mileage. It's not a lumpy cam but with the EFI systems it's hard to manage a lump, lump, lump, potato, potato, potato sound. I also got a quiet cam... well, as quiet as a HD cam can be.

The S&S 551 has better bottom end. The 254E cam has great bottom end pulling power for the way I ride. If I saw this chart before installing the 254E cams I would have chosen the S&S 551EZ cams and tweaked the top end. However, I don't want to go back in and start all over. So, the 254E cams are fine for me.


Now, no... this is not MY dyno chart. There were no timing changes done here. It just shows the raw torque and HP lines that can be made before tweaking the tune. I have made such tweaks which pushes my 254E's higher in low end torque. Call it the best of both worlds.

For you guys with other aftermarket cams. This would be a great place to post your charts with 103 motors so the rest of us can see your curves.

I will also add... other popular cam profiles are almost the same as the 254E. They vary a few ft lbs of TQ or HP here and there. I'm talking about cams with less than 550 lift and 240 duration. They are the most popular cams used for bottom end and mid range. The higher profile cams will drag out the high RPM areas but will show a loss in the bottom end.

So, let's get a conversation going here and maybe, if it's good enough, we can have a place to discuss cam charts and compare. May even turn into a sticky.



-Wiz

 

I posted this on another thread but you may want to check it out.
The Dyno run was at Roaders Racing in Monroeville, Oh. They do have a Trike Dyno. The first run in red was the tune from the SEPST (Screamin Eagle Pro Super Tuner) that I downloaded in my garage and it fell off quickly just above 3000 rpm. He tweeked the settings and now it runs very well. Runs cooler than before and it gets 38mpg and I ride it kinda hard.
The measured stock HP & Torque of a 103 is: 65.98 HP & 80.56 lbs. Torque. These figures are from runs on a dyno from Vance & Hines. These figures are to the rear wheels.
The cam we installed is a Headquarters HQ-0034. It is exactly the same as the HQ-500. Int 20/36 236 .500"
Exh 51/19 250 .500"
It has a great "loopy" lobe at idle and pulls hard from 1500 all the way to 6 grand.

 

I am posting my dyno results and would like your opinion of the results for the total build involved. Although I am happy with the performance, I still think something is missing, especially on the top end. Am I looking for to much? And I should mention that the trike was dynoed by another dealer at 95 HP and 105 on the torque. But it was all over the place on performance with major drops at several RPM points. The chart looked like a heart attack readout.

 

Who did your heads? I would have expected to see better numbers than you have.

 

The heads are from Harley and the dealer here did the build. They don't have a trike dyno and loaded a tune that they had. You could tell it wasn't right so I started looking for a dealer with a dyno. I wasn't looking for miracles, just better pulling power and passing power. My dyno chart shows what I thought was a great looking flat line that rises with the RPM's. Should it be a little erratic?

 

With what you have done I would expect better numbers than you have, this is a STD dyno chart from the 2010 Triglide I had with just a set of Wood TW555's and a fuelmoto Jackpot head pipe. I had the timing conservative so it would run on pretty much any fuel I could get so I left some power and torque on the table. Yours made only 2 more hp and the same torque, you have a set of decent heads, the compression has been bumped up to where the TW777 should work well. I'm betting the person tuning it just set the VE tables and called it a day without working on the timing tables.

 

I think you could be right about the timing issue. I will ask the tuner about that and see if he stayed conservative because of the octane and mileage. When it was dynoed at 95 HP I was getting around 26 MPG. With this tune I am around 34-35 on the MPG. Maybe there's a better tune somewhere in between the two. Thanks for the advice.

 

When they tune it they can tune the cruising areas to give decent fuel economy. When you look at the dyno sheet all you see is what it did wide open throttle. The 95 hp tune could have been tweaked to give you better fuel mileage and still make a decent number if they guy tuning it wanted too.

 

I think it's about time to wake this old thread up with more cam charts.

Remember... Stock 103 with catless head pipe, 2.0 baffle mufflers and free flow ac.



37 H Andrews



48H




54H




57H





254E






259E





S&S551EZ





S&S570EZ







What is it that you really see?? Yes, you are correct. They all look the same with the exception of a curve difference. Find your curve and pick your cam to blend with your riding style.

 

This is my Dyno on my 2009 Harley Triglide. The cam is a Headquarters 0034 with black ops lifters.