65 XLCH ironhead help
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/14/2007 5:45:35 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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Supergwit...
Congrats on getting your ironhead. In regards to both of your photos I can relay the following to you from looking at the photos:
I cannot determine if the engine is a 1965 or not. It is definitely 1969 or earlier though.
It is a 900cc displacement, not 1000 as the former owner claimed.
1000cc engines started with 1972.
Let's address the non standard items I see on the bike first, then we will get back to the engine.
The frame, the fenders, the fuel tank, the seat, the handlebars, the forward controls and the tail light are all aftermarket items.
The front forks are off a 1973 or newer Sportster.
The front wheel with double disc brakes are likewise off a newer Sportster. Disc brakes first appeared in 1973.
The oil tank is an original item. (I'd love to have that!) So hang on to it.
The engine:
As I said, it is 900cc displacement. Looking at the left side photo, the primary cover appears to be a chrome aftermarket item. The original had a series of horizontal ridges running the length of it, most likely done to stiffen the sheet metal.
Looking at the right side photo I see the engine has a magneto and no electric starter. This tells us that it is an XLCH model, rather than an XLH. The XLH model had a distributor, battery and an electric starter for that machine.
The timing cover is smooth. This indicates the engine must be a 1968 or 1969 engine. Earlier engines had horizontal ridges across the cover and were not smooth. 1970 did away with the magneto and went to an electrical ignition system on both the XLCH and the XLH models.
The sprocket cover verifies that this engine has a dry clutch. Dry clutch was used 1957 to 1970. 1971 was the first year of the wet clutch.
A dry clutch is fine, just do not allow oil to get into it. The clutch hub on yours has a gasketed bonnet bolted to the clutch hub and an oil seal around the clutch shaft inside. This prevents primary case oil from fouling the clutch plates.
Your rear brake drum and wheel hub are original. It appears that your rear rim is a 16 inch and carries a 5.00x16 tire. Not original, but a frequent modification done by Sportster owners back in the days gone by.
As to your questions:
Use #4 or #5 spark plugs. You can get them at an HD dealer, or go to the parts house and get the equivalent in Champion.
The rear chain is a 530 size.
Get yourself a Diamond 530 ENP (electro nickle plated) chain. This is a 5/8 pitch x 3/8 inch width. Be sure to buy it in a length of at least 116 pitches long. The length needed depends on what tooth counter shaft sprocket you are using. You may as well buy a good chain break tool while you're at it.
Oil: Get Harley-Davidson Grade 75 from your dealer if he carries it. This oil is equal to regular 60w, which is a really odd weight oil. That is why H-D used it I have always assumed. This may or may not be sold in your area. I cannot get it here in Houston TX. I use Castrol 70w in both the engine and transmission. If you ride in a really cold climate then 50w will work.
Whatever you do.....DO NOT use automatic transmission fluid in the tranny! Some people say to use it and that is just plain wrong. The engine oil and transmission/primary oil mix to a certain extent, so use the same oil in both engine and trans. The trans oil goes into the primary case of course and fill until it flows out of the overflow level screw hole in the primary. Then replace the screw and cover.
For parts supply, the easy answer is J&P Cycles. Good to the website and order yourself a catalog. They sell almost anything you will need, and a lot of stuff you do not need!
Get yourself a parts manual. Do not buy a Clymers or Haynes manual, but rather a honest-to-God Harley publication. You will be looking for Service Manual 1959 to 1969 Sportster. It will have a Bl
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/14/2007 7:31:44 PM
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wolf1477
Posts: 1162
Joined: 5/22/2006
From: Janesville, WI
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My advice: Listen to Piniongear<G>
I can't tell ya how much time/effort/money he's saved me with his knowledge.
Other'n that, it's a great looking bike and I hope you get many miles of entertainment out of it.
Wolf, and I'll restress...buy the HD manual! It's a lifesaver
_____________________________
“Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment.”
—Solomon Short
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/14/2007 10:06:55 PM
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xxxflhrci
Posts: 5797
Joined: 9/4/2006
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If you need a parts manual, I have a nice spare. It's yours for 20 bucks shipped.
As far as chain brand go, I ran Tsubaki nickel plated chains for years. They are expensive and only lasted about 10k miles before stretching. A while back, I bought a Western Powersports nickel plated chain for about 30 bucks. It appears to be a good chain.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=13422&department=660&division=6
Thumbnail Image
 Attachment (1)
< Message edited by xxxflhrci -- 3/14/2007 10:15:09 PM >
_____________________________
2000 Road King Classic. Andrews 26G cams, SE Stage I, DFO, V&H True Duals with Samson Fishtail Mufflers.
1977 XLH, Nearly bone stock.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/15/2007 10:24:17 AM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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pinion - wow. that was one hell of a response, my friend. you know your stuff! thank you tons.
xxx - i'll take that manual. you have paypal? email me please: brandonlaws@hotmail.com
thanks guys.
any other tips / comments / feelings about my bike will be gladly welcomed.
thank you guys!
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/15/2007 10:55:50 AM
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xxxflhrci
Posts: 5797
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Super,
I sent you an email.
_____________________________
2000 Road King Classic. Andrews 26G cams, SE Stage I, DFO, V&H True Duals with Samson Fishtail Mufflers.
1977 XLH, Nearly bone stock.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/15/2007 10:59:47 AM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
Joined: 2/13/2006
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That's a fair price for the parts manual. I don't even have one myself, so it's a good find.
The views will help you determine how the parts fit together and what parts are involved in a particular area.
Continue to search for the H-D service manual. This you will really need if you plan to work on the machine. Meanwhile, if you have any questions just ask. I will try to answer if I can and will tell you when I do not know the answer.
I can also scan material and send it to you in an email as a PDF until you get your own service manual.......pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/16/2007 2:46:58 AM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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pinion - i have to ask - do you think i got a good deal for 2k? it runs - it sounds good - it looks great - what do you think?
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/16/2007 10:56:00 AM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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You certainly did do well with your purchase.
The really old ironheads are becoming scarce.
Most $2K machines are going to be found sitting in a cardboard box, requiring a load of money to get running. Yours looks nice and already runs. So, you did well.
Most important though.....Are you happy with the machine? Sounds like you are.
Ironheads are not for people who have to take the bike to a dealer every time they need a change of spark plugs or change the oil. People who do not know which end of a screwdriver goes into the slot have no business with an ironhead. Trust me, there are a lot of them out there but you will not find many at this site. They all ride over there on the page for newer machines....pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/16/2007 6:36:45 PM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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you guys are making me feel like a successful investor. thanks for all the tips (and ego boosts). now does anybody have any opinions one what i should or shouldn't do to this bike in the future? paint? after market parts? electric starter (i don't think that's possible, actually)? unfortunately, i don't have much free time lately because i'm a full time student (five classes) and i live in new hampshire so the free time i DO have is usually hampered by poor weather. this gives me a ton of opportunity to think about the future. let me know if you have any good ideas.
thanks again, guys. you've already helped me so much. i can't wait to share my progress with you.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/16/2007 10:47:49 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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Your machine actually looks like the black paint job in in really good condition.
I have looked from end to end at both photos and cannot think of one single thing that you could change to improve the bike.
It really looks good to me.....well you got that ugly oil tank, but you can always pull it off and send it to me. Ha-Ha.
Don't even entertain the thought of putting an electric starter on this machine.
It would require a starter, solenoid, relay, starter button, battery, a lot of wiring, starter ring gear inside the clutch, different oil tank (to mount the battery), and a bunch of custom fabrication to mount the starter. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the engine cases will not allow the mounting of a starter over the trans housing. That fact alone puts the question to rest.
These XLCH's were meant to live life as a kick start only. The XLH of your year model came with an electric starter, but don't fret.....you are better off owning a CH.
I would just put in some ride time and get accustomed to the bike. A little saddle time will let you know if there is something you want to change or add..........pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/18/2007 3:29:10 PM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
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i forgot to mention that whoever installed the ignition key did it wrong and to turn off the bike you have to pull off one of the spark plug wires
how bad do you think this is for the bike?
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/18/2007 5:03:13 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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It does not cause a problem for the bike, but it does cause one for you. This should be fixed before you ride it much. Reconnect the proper wiring at the switch. What this will do is ground the magneto to the frame wnen you turn the key to off position.........pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/19/2007 2:40:46 AM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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pinion, i feel like i owe you money.
you're a life saver. i might name my bike after you ;)
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/19/2007 1:56:44 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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You don't owe me anything Sup.......just help the next guy when your chance comes along. Good riding to you........pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/27/2007 7:31:22 PM
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xxxflhrci
Posts: 5797
Joined: 9/4/2006
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super,
Do you still want that manual? I haven't seen any payment, if you sent it.
_____________________________
2000 Road King Classic. Andrews 26G cams, SE Stage I, DFO, V&H True Duals with Samson Fishtail Mufflers.
1977 XLH, Nearly bone stock.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/27/2007 8:01:59 PM
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strickrodt70
Posts: 183
Joined: 1/22/2007
From: Fort Campbell, KY
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That front end looks a heck of a lot like the one on my 1983 XLX. I really don't want that pukey face there, but my 3 year old son asked me to use that one. 
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/30/2007 10:08:49 PM
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jestermail
Posts: 19
Joined: 2/23/2007
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Hey XXX,
If super doesn't want the manual anymore...I'll take it!
Jester
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/31/2007 10:25:50 AM
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xxxflhrci
Posts: 5797
Joined: 9/4/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jestermail
Hey XXX,
If super doesn't want the manual anymore...I'll take it!
Jester
I haven't heard a word from him about it since that last post. He said the money was coming 2 weeks ago. If there's no check in the mail this afternoon, it's yours. I'll PM you with the details.
_____________________________
2000 Road King Classic. Andrews 26G cams, SE Stage I, DFO, V&H True Duals with Samson Fishtail Mufflers.
1977 XLH, Nearly bone stock.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 3/31/2007 3:43:43 PM
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jestermail
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Sounds good to me.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/1/2008 1:27:36 PM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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i bought a '72 basket case motor and i'm putting it together. i'm nervous that it won't fit though because it has an electric start and the starter is in the rear of the motor. judging by the pictures i posted up top, does anyone have an opinion about this?
the weather has been so nice lately, and i'm dying to get back on the road.
thanks guys.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/1/2008 8:10:00 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
Joined: 2/13/2006
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Superwit.....
Most likely the 1972 engine is going to fit into the frame you have. I assume that is your intent?
The electric starter is not going to allow you to use your oil tank. You will have to get another oil tank. The best bet is going to be a side mount oil tank, as they were made for the purpose of having room for an electric starter, and one should be easy to locate.
Now that brings one additional problem......the battery.
An electric starter takes a much larger battery than a kick start CH does. This honkin' big battery needs to sit where your center mount oil tank now sits, and miss the electric starter as well. You will find things close, but you can do it. Take the engine and set it in the frame first. Install the starter in place.
Now, take care of the oil tank details, battery mount etc one at a time. When you come up with a mount for the battery, be sure to be able to access it easily to check and refill the water level. As always, the devil is in the details. Think out everything you want to do and imagine how the set up will be for you to ride the bike every day.
You will get there, just keep plugging on. Post photos of the results..........pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 12:17:00 AM
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Moon Wolf
Posts: 94
Joined: 5/27/2007
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IMHO the 65 is a much nicer motor than the 72. Dial your bike in and learn how to kick it. That's the way motorcycles were meant to be started, anyway.
One note, no electric start on the 65 XLH (I'm in the midst of restoring one now). The first electric start Sportster was the 67 XLH, two years after the Electraglide.
< Message edited by Moon Wolf -- 5/2/2008 9:45:38 AM >
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 8:09:56 AM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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thanks guys. i was preparing myself to not be able to use my original oil tank. i love the look of it, but i was pretty sure it would have to go. as far as the battery situation, there is a space between the rear fender and the downtube that the seat is over that i think i may be able to get my metal-working buddy to fab a battery box into somehow. it'll be a project, for sure.
moon: a remote control car motor would be better than the '65 i pulled out of my bike. it honestly looked like someone took the case apart and used it for target practice. something quite obviously blew up in there at some point. the '72 i bought for $300 (after i sold my '65 motor for $200) is in really amazing condition considering its age, and the one advantage that comes from it being a basket case is that i can tell the motor is in much better shape - also, after spending about $200 at JP cycles to get new gaskets and bearings i'm confident that the motor will run better than the one i previously had in the bike. is there any reason why you think the 65 is better? i plan on using the kickstart on the '72 for a while before i get the battery box fabbed in there, anyway, but i'm pretty ignorant when it comes to harley motors and why one particular year could be considered better than another. that's why i come here :)
thanks guys. again.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 9:54:45 AM
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Moon Wolf
Posts: 94
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Those original CH oil tanks go for a lot of money, probably more than you paid for the motor. There's a NOS one on ebay now that was at about $800 with several days to go.
I've seen a number of solutions to the battery problem. If you have a stock 65 frame, though, with no mods, it's worth a good bit of money, too. You could probably sell it, buy the electric start frame, and come out several hundred dollar to the good.
Is there a reason why I think the 65 is better? Well, I'm a fan of the early Sportsters, before AMF took over. The quality is arguably better in the early years, and I think the motors are a lot better looking. They also made damn few of the early bikes, which contributes to making them special--less than 3,000 CHs in 65 (and less than 1,000 Hs) while in 72 they made almost 11,000 CHs.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 12:57:03 PM
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supergwit
Posts: 40
Joined: 2/27/2007
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thanks, wolf. my frame is definitely not stock - it's a hardtail, and i like the look and feel of it so i'm going to try my best to keep it. however, my oil tank isn't in the greatest condition, but it certainly in good enough condition that someone would want it - i was planning on putting it on ebay if i ended up not being able to use it, thank you for letting me know i would be making the right decision.
this next two week block should be very progressive for my bike. i'll definitely keep you guys posted, and once i've got something worth taking pictures of i'll throw some up here for you.
i can't thank you enough for all of your help. this forum has been more help than i ever could have hoped for. you guys are awesome.
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 1:07:46 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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I agree with you there, but there are some things better on a 1972 as compared to a 1965.
At the very top of that list sits the wet clutch on the '72.
This is one of the greatest things to ever happen to a Sportster. The dry clutch (1970 and earlier) was nothing but a constant pain in my experience. A whiff of oil and the clutch was done for. Barrnett plates helped, but you still had to keep it dry.
If it were me and I was going to run an electric starter (no chance of that!) I would rather have a '72 engine over a 1970 or earlier, mainly due to the clutch issue.
Just my 2¢ again........pg
_____________________________
Rolling down the highway on two wheels since 1957...
Owner Red/White 1971 XLCH & 2003 FXDL-Silver over Black
http://area51.tzo.com/bperry/gallery
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 2:40:04 PM
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thefrenchowl
Posts: 48
Joined: 7/3/2006
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Pinion:"At the very top of that list sits the wet clutch on the '72. This is one of the greatest things to ever happen to a Sportster. The dry clutch (1970 and earlier) was nothing but a constant pain in my experience"
... I beg to differ!!!!
Not being myself "the Hulk" in the wrist department, the lightness and feel of the dry clutch can't be matched and if assembled right, they don't get wet... They also don't try to overpower the gearbox... All my tranny explosions, 2 so far, were with the wet one...
Can you also tell me why your 71 has a wet clutch. As you say yourself, it only came in 72...
Patrick
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RE: 65 XLCH ironhead help - 5/2/2008 3:08:42 PM
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piniongear
Posts: 1621
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Patrick.....
Something got lost in the translation here.
I said 1972 in reference to the engine the man now has. Not implying that the wet clutch was the great event of 1972.
The great event of 1971 was the wet clutch arriving, as you well know.
My 1971 has a wet clutch. It is by far the best thing that ever happened to a Sportster.
I rode a 1961 XLCH in Class C TT races for a number of years.
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