RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned

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RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 2/3/2008 10:02:28 AM    wizard2 Posts: 48 Joined: 11/19/2007 Status: offline Terry  IHAVE A 07 STREET GLIDE WITH BUB 7 TRUE DULES WITH 02 SEN SEAC AND SERT DID I REALY NEED TO ADD THE SERT SINCE THE 02 SEN SHOULD COMPENSATE IS THIS TRUE OR FALSE (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 121

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 2/18/2008 3:15:45 PM    francis   Posts: 129 Joined: 12/26/2007 Status: offline Hi guys, could you help me with a problem. I live in the UK and i want to wire my turn signals into side or running lights , Here in the UK its illegal , I think you might have a different loom???. Thanks _____________________________ Noel 2521 (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 122

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 2/22/2008 8:30:54 AM    LUMPY100   Posts: 22 Joined: 2/7/2008 Status: offline Ok I get i need a tuner. But does anybody have a opinions on ny certian brand?  I'm leaning towards a terrys components terminal velocity (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 123

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 2/22/2008 5:22:23 PM    bugzapper   Posts: 7 Joined: 1/31/2008 Status: offline I read the entire thread and didn't see anyone with my situation.  I purchased a 2004 Wide Glide in Sept. 2007 and it already had SE A/C and some type muffler change.  Is there any way to know if there have been necessary changes to the ECM or not?  Fuel mileage is about 42-45 mpg mixed highway and city.  Very rarely is there any popping on decel and even then it will only pop once.  Are there any other tell-tell signs to look for?  This is my first HD and first Injected. (in reply to LUMPY100) Post #: 124

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 2/24/2008 9:02:19 AM    Arkievet   Posts: 13 Joined: 11/14/2007 Status: offline Ok, I have been constantly hearing that if you change the exhaust and airbox then its necessary to remap the ECMwith either an aftermarket device such as the V&H FuelPak, Powercommander, etc. or go with the Harley Race tuner.  I have an 07 FLSTC with Rush slipons and plan on adding the Stage 1 SC air intake.  Of course my dealer is pushing the Race Tuner and everone seems to pretty much agree that is is a good product.  However the dealer says an hour of labor is all it will take so it sounds like they are planning on using a ready made map and not putting it on a dyno.  My question is though in the April edition of American Iron there is an article on page 186 where they replace the stock air intake with an S&S quick set up kit and a set of S&S slip on mufflers.  The author of the article states that the stock ECM will automatically readjust itself after approximately 15 minutes on a dyno with no adjustments, aftermarket devices, or a race tuner.  So if this is true then why would I need to purchase a Race Tuner or aftermarket device since my Rush Slipons and SC stage 1 air intake are not that much different than the S&S slipons and air intake??? Confused! Dave (in reply to bugzapper) Post #: 125

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 3/12/2008 8:37:14 AM    Ninekiller Posts: 24 Joined: 3/6/2008 Status: offline Hello Terry, Very informative thread.  My problem is that every Harley dealer I've spoken with tells me that a SERT is for off road use only and will void the engine warranty.  There are one or two shops here in Ontario that will work with me, but they also warn that if I am a thousand miles away and break down, the majority of dealerships will not honor the warranty with the SERT installed.  My new Ultra will have the 103" Stage II upgrade with cams, airbox etc.  The exhaust will be Kerkers with 6" slash cut SE end caps.  The dealer wants to install a V & H Fuel Pak.  The other dealer I've been talking to says this will also void the warranty.  Is there any way to provide the right fuel management system for my 08 big bore and not end up with warranty problems?  (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 126

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 3/12/2008 9:51:15 AM    whittlebeast   Posts: 282 Joined: 3/2/2007 Status: offline I have been told that any SERT that has previously been married to any other bike can be used to data log any other bike with the use of a laptop and a ride for about 20 min.  With that data log and a good third party log graphing program, is it real easy to see if the stock ECU is homing in on a good tune or is having trouble.  Remember to turn on 02 logging before you start the log.  True top end testing really ony reliable with a $400 wide band or a dyno.  Groose lean errors can be quite easy to find this way.  Too fat is difficult to see.  This is about the only good way to verify the midrange. Non o2 equiped bike are stuck with seat of the pants feel and plug reading or draining your wallet at the dealer and counting on the tallent of the dyno guy.  If all he wants to do is twist the throttle once to 100% and give you a graph of your HP and torque curve and AFR, you need to find a real tuner.  AW < Message edited by whittlebeast -- 3/12/2008 11:20:57 AM > _____________________________ When the racers get done doing the impossible the engineers get a chance to correct the errors in the model. ***My other addiction, running Megasquirt EFI *** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXH4WWhqZ_s (in reply to Ninekiller) Post #: 127

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 3/18/2008 11:29:56 PM    PamzJoe   Posts: 471 Joined: 6/3/2007 Status: offline Terry,   First of all, I'm real glad I found your post on this subject. I have been wanting to become more educated on these types of mods, as I too want my bike to perform at it's peak (what I can afford anyway.) I have an'07 Road Glide, stock except for Rush slipons. I want to add an AC and a SERT. What I am confused about is, everybody says don't get the download. Okay I get that but does that mean any download or just the one from HD? Where does one go to get the professional tune? Can you still have it done at the dealership if your not using their download? I've got about $750. to spend, is that gonna be enough? I hope you don't mind me picking your brain but it is my first trip to the well so to speek. Oh yeah, how key is true duals vs. stock headers when considering this setup?                                                                           Thanks again.                                                                                   Joe _____________________________ 2007 Road Glide WG bars Rush Slipons Assorted Bling IDS Stg I AC (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 128

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 4/4/2008 7:43:14 PM    1Coastie Posts: 116 Joined: 10/16/2007 Status: offline A good HD dealership is the place to go, the download is kinda a generic fix, and will not take into account any quirks that your particular bike may have. Also, if your battery dies, or you get an electrical short i.e. from a battery charger you can lose your download. The SERT is the way to go IMHO, it is a Harley part, if it fails Harley will replace it. Also common sense dictates that HD will be more apt to uphold your factory warranty if you use the SERT instead of aftermarket tuners. Besides the SERT is a great part. Now to answer the question why do I need a SERT, or download, or other tuner. The O2 sensors are narrow band sensors on Harleys. This means that they really only work at certain RPM's i.e. cruise speed and idle, but they do not allow the computer to constantly tune the engine the way the wide band sensors sensors would on say a Corvette. That is why you have to go through all this headache when adding performance parts to a HD. On a Corvette, the wide band sensors would allow the stock computer to compensate for all but the most extreme modifications. They are making some wide band kits for Harleys, if they work well (I haven't heard much about them yet) these will constantly tune the bike for you based on atmospheric conditions and elevation, as well as tune for basic performance mods. All you will have to do is an initial dyno run to get the computer close, and it will do the rest. I kind wish I had a wide band kit, I have the SERT with a good dyno tune and it runs great (like night and day over stock). Hope this answers some questions. _____________________________ YOUR EITHER PART OF PROBLEM OR YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION (in reply to PamzJoe) Post #: 129

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 4/12/2008 8:53:07 AM    rocknrod Posts: 2090 Joined: 8/26/2007 From: Rhome, TX Status: offline So I have an 08 FLHX. I buy a SERT First 32107-01L ? And cables 32108-06 ? I have a great laptop. Am I on the right road so far? _____________________________ .Cheaper Power (in reply to 1Coastie) Post #: 130

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 4/12/2008 9:28:02 AM    1Coastie Posts: 116 Joined: 10/16/2007 Status: offline rocknrod, good to hear from a retired Master Chief, I was in the Navy for 15 years prior to joining the Coast Guard, I will retire in four more years. I dont know the process for tuning a S.E.R.T. without a dyno (if it can be done at all), one thing for sure, you would need the download from someone with the exact same bike and the exact same modifications to make it work. And then that other bike might not still run exactly the same as yours causing lean or rich fuel problems at different rpm's.  You have a beautiful bike, you have spent alot of money on it, trust me when I say "spend the money having a professional (competent) tuner dyno tune your bike" it's worth the money, your bike will run cooler, make more horsepower and torque, and may even get better gas mileage. It may sting a little to shell out the extra cash, but once you feel the inprovement, you wont regret it. _____________________________ YOUR EITHER PART OF PROBLEM OR YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION (in reply to rocknrod) Post #: 131

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 4/18/2008 6:19:21 PM    workformetoo   Posts: 62 Joined: 3/5/2008 Status: offline In Houston, TX, who has the best dyno techs (which store)? (in reply to Terry1955) Post #: 132

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 7/2/2008 8:56:06 PM    _James_   Posts: 1 Joined: 6/13/2008 Status: offline Well, this is a very interesting thread. I am having some issues with my 07 Street Bob, which is my first Harley and first EFI bike. It has the SE stage 1 along with VH Shortshots Staggered and the Power Commander. Initially after purchase, about 2 months ago, the bike was running very rough cold and would frequently stall at idle (sometimes even hot). I took it into the dealer I purchased it at and they located a leak in the intake manifold seal and replace it then tuned it. Afterward it ran great for about 2 weeks, now it is back to running somewhat rough cold and intermittently stalls hot. The dealer I purchased the bike from installed the upgrades for the previous owner. I have been talking to another dealer who states I need the SERT to resolve this issue. From what I am reading the Power Commander should be able to get the tuning ''good enough'' for cruising, is this correct or do I need to shell out and get the SERT? Thanks in advance, James (in reply to workformetoo) Post #: 133

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 7/3/2008 5:17:57 AM    glens   Posts: 1619 Joined: 7/4/2007 Status: offline Is this thread really meant for ongoing discussion? The title and location would suggest it is intended primarily for information. Naturally, a shop is going to suggest the device they are most comfortable with is the best thing for you to use. Both systems are more than suitable for your intended purpose. However, neither system will effectively cover up an elemental problem. You need to find out if the same problem which was actually fixed once has recurred, and if so, why. All the running gear must be in good working order. It is raining outside right now and I do not feel like going for a ride, so I might as well rain on your parade a little and spread the joy. Has it occurred to you that perhaps this is an ongoing situation from way back and may be part of the reason the original owner no longer has the bike? It might ultimately prove to be a flaky sensor or something else equally simple, yet difficult to pin down. (in reply to _James_) Post #: 134

RE: Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned - 7/4/2008 6:07:32 PM    bengkelsepedamotor   Posts: 1 Joined: 7/2/2008 Status: offline Hi,  \\; I am newbie here, EFI bikes need to be tune because original map is \\;made for pass emission control regulation.  \\; But the bike need more than that, \\;but any chages are illegal for use on public road, also void warranty.  \\; Instead of SERT, I installed ThunderMax ECU. You can see the picture here http://bengkelsepedamotor.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/41/  \\;  \\;  \\;  \\;  \\; (in reply to glens) Post #: 135

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