RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 2:40:28 PM
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cruiser85257
Posts: 927
Joined: 2/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: diebolt
Well with close to 1400 posts and only one "unhappy person" I think the numbers speak volumes.
I am not one that wants to do a lot to my bike. I like to keep it as stock as possible. It was so much easier with my 01 Ultra..... Stage 1, download and slip ons. Done deal. I wanted to be able to do this with my 08 Ultra and could not achieve this and be happy without Steve's product.
Having a 7 year warranty and not wanting to fight the company if I had problems also played into my decision. I am in "compliance" with the warranty by having the Stage 1, download and slip ons and with the Xied's I am enjoying less heat and smoother running bike with more power all for $100.00. I also like the fact that I can take these off the bike in minutes when I take it in for service and they are none the wiser.
I do realize that many would rather go the race tuner/fuel management route and dial in things a little better and more power to them, but I just want a simple solution to making my bike run better. Thanks to Steve & Nightrider I have that option.
I can't wait to see what he comes up with in the future.
Thank You Steve for your dedication to this problem.
This is going to be one of those debated issues that neither side is going to win. I keep seeing that you have to have a stage one download to be legally kept under warranty. I seriously doubt this and I'll tell you why. My prior Bike was an 07 Wide Glide. I had the Dealer put a set of V&H Big Shots on it with a SE AC, and asked him to do a stage one download. That was back in the days when I was extremely naive and believed a simple download was all one needed to correct the AFR when adding exhaust and an air kit.
The Service Manager told me he could not give me the HD stage one download because I didn't have 100% HD parts (viloation of Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). The truth of the matter is that they should have a stage one download available for whatever parts you put on whether they be HD or not. Now I'm suppose to believe that by not having that download my warranty is invalid? After all the dealer is the one who put the Non HD exhaust on my bike. He was more than willing to sell me a Race Tuner and about 5 hours of dyno tuning at over $80 an hour. I didn't want to get that deep, and especially that expensive. So he sold me a Cobra SI2000. Once again assuring me that I would have no warranty problem with his shop.
This whole scenario stinks and has that foul "Thou must buy all HD parts and accessories" all over it. It is a clear violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You don't have to buy their download to keep your warranty intact. If you add an air kit and exhaust and neither of them are made by HD, all one has to do is to make sure their fuel ratio is adequate and neither too lean or too rich. The Stage one download in a lot of cases would still leave the Bike running too lean, because we all know that HD can't legally mess with your AFR making it richer than the EPA mandates.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Stage one download is an uneccessary expense. It's not going to hurt the Bike, and from the tests we have seen, neither is it really going to help the Bike. It's not a guarantee that your warranty will remain intact. It's just one more way for Mother HD to get more of your money. About all your getting for your money is higher rpms.
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2007 FLHX
K&N RK3909 air kit
Nightrider XIED's - Best Bang For The Buck
Rush 2 inch mufflers
Fastaire 8 inch
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 4:08:17 PM
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Ybnormal67
Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2007
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quote:
I have a K&N air kit along with Rush slip ons with 2 inch baffles. I rode my nike the other day in 94 degree weather and it still ran nice and cool. I don't need any stage one download. I'd just be throwing my $200 away. My Bike runs better now than it ever has. Besides the dealer wouldn't sell me the download way back when I first changed exhaust on my other Bike. I had to have all HD parts. Just another one of their gimmicks to make more money off of us. Go talk to different Techs at the dealerships, and ask them what the stage one download does. I guarantee you will not get the same answer twice. The only thing I have heard more than once is it raises rpm's.
Put the XIED on your Bike and ride it. If you still feel like you need something else than go spend your $200. But I seriously doubt you will have any additional needs after you feel the way the bike runs with the XIED's on it.
Hey Cruiser,
I have one last question if you don't mind. Do you happen to know the air flow difference between the k&n filter you have on you ride the Stage 1 kit filter from HD and a stock filter?
Just curious, don't want to spend the money if I don't need to get a new filter.
Anyone else care to chime in?
Should have my XIED's monday or tuesday hopefully.
Thanks,
Joe
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 5:01:04 PM
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heywood727
Posts: 614
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Edmonton Ab. Canada
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quote:
It is a clear violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Unfortunately, that act doesn't help Us Canadians.
_____________________________
If I was one... I wouldn''t tell ya! If I wasn''t one... I wouldn''t walk around saying I was!
08 RG BUB 7 TD
08 Buell Blast
02 Heritage
82 SECA Turbo
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 5:27:15 PM
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Badfinger
Posts: 510
Joined: 9/23/2007
From: Ohio
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I'm back, they're on , and I'm one Happy Camper! I walked out to meet my mailman like I usually do and he handed me the Xieds. I immediately took them to the barn and in about 5 minutes I was firing up th bike. They really install that fast if you have already found the connector and have a couple of wire ties in your pocket. I started it up and could tell the report ( stock bike) was softer, lower in pitch, and had more of pop than crack sound to it. My wife said it sounds creamier, OK I guess.
I wasn't expecting to get them so soon and I left my thermometer at work but I can tell it's cooler because I rode several hours today and went downtown into traffic with plenty of stop & go two up and never felt hot!! I couldn't believe it because my right leg always gets hot and today it didn't!
I know my opinion isn't measurable but even the boys could tell a difference. I'm very pleased with the results. 
Ride well,
Jim
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 5:55:52 PM
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Rider57
Posts: 261
Joined: 2/22/2008
From: Colorado
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Here we go again!
Magnason Act!
That act covers anything that you would put on, or in, your bike that caused a failure of any component normally covered under warranty.
Here's the tricky part. If you use a SERT, and you load a map that you created or changed, to the bike and it causes crap to happen, you are $h!t up the creek.
Oh one more thing, if the dealer sells and installs any thing that causes a failure, it is his responsibility to fix it.
Ya gotta read the WHOLE thing and the addendums!
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Rider57 * The Gasman
07 FLTR
LC1/WBO2
HTTC Heads
10.5:1
Jugs - .015
Night Prowler 408B BeltDrive cams
7 Speed Baker
124 HP 131Tq
Custom MAP (not sert)
0 to 60 = 4.1 sec
Top Speed = 144.8
08 FLHR
XIED
SERT MAP (custom)
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 6:12:22 PM
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djhrln
Posts: 59
Joined: 6/2/2007
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Just installed XIED's on 08 EGC. Subtle difference, but definitely a difference. I had tried the Fuelpak with SE/AC. It ran like crap, didn't want to idle, obvious loss of low rpm power, especially 2 up. V&H can't seem to figure out why. Went back to stock.
So I thought I'd give the XIED's a try, and voila, this is all I wanted. It's the way it should run. Smooth idle, less throttle to get going, smoother shifting at lower rpm. I dont' have to shift at 4k. Shift at 3.5k and it just grabs and goes. I like it. Thank you very much!
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 6:18:21 PM
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gs34doc
Posts: 189
Joined: 4/3/2008
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Joe, way back somewhere in the beginning of this thread....maybe 1st 10 pages or so....somebody posted the air flow for several different a/c. I think it was AZchuck. He's riding a SG with a modified stock airbox.
If you want to look back thru and find it, I think you will find that the stock airbox flows sufficient air for the slip-ons.
Does anyone else who has been here for this whole thing remember that??
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For those that have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 7:15:14 PM
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aldo1952
Posts: 7
Joined: 4/28/2008
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The Xieds have lowered my 2007 ULTRA CLASSIC temps dramaticly.
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 7:36:13 PM
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marvincbr
Posts: 334
Joined: 12/26/2006
From: Shorewood IL
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Just got mine in the mail today. I didn't get to ride around too much, had other things on the to do list. I didn't notice anything too different right off, but again I only went around the block. Monday will be a better test, as I will take it to work. Over a hundred miles round trip and stop and go traffic getting out of the city in the afternoon. If they keep the heat down, I will be a happy camper.
_____________________________
2007 Road Glide FLTR
103 Stage II
WG bars
2" Rush slip-ons
Fullsac duels
SE A/C
Lowered 1" front and rear
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 7:48:57 PM
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heywood727
Posts: 614
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Edmonton Ab. Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 05LowRider
Count me among the XIED group now. Just got mine in today's mail. I have been running the IED's for a bit over a month. I'd really like to experience the difference but the damn weather is just not going to cooperate today. It rains about every hour regular as clock work today!
Maybe tomorrow will bring better luck!
FWIW the bike was much better with the IED's. But it would still get hot enough with the fairing lowers installed to go in to heat management mode while riding in stop and go traffic. This was happening in 75* weather. I really didn't think it would be a problem until much warmer temps. Had to pull them off. I was really hoping to be able to run them all season since they really improve the buffeting on my RG. Guess not. Maybe the XIED's will change that!
You know, you might be able to get away with it still.
Leave the lowers on and try it with the air baffle removed. That might do the trick.
_____________________________
If I was one... I wouldn''t tell ya! If I wasn''t one... I wouldn''t walk around saying I was!
08 RG BUB 7 TD
08 Buell Blast
02 Heritage
82 SECA Turbo
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 7:55:04 PM
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heywood727
Posts: 614
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Edmonton Ab. Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cruiser85257
That's a Bummer Heywood. 
Thanks Cruiser. I don't really want to hi jack this thread into a warranty thing. There's enough of them already. I think there's more to the act than people think. I doubt that it would be an easy thing to put in play and HD would go broke doing free labor and parts.
Another time...another thread..
_____________________________
If I was one... I wouldn''t tell ya! If I wasn''t one... I wouldn''t walk around saying I was!
08 RG BUB 7 TD
08 Buell Blast
02 Heritage
82 SECA Turbo
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test - 5/10/2008 8:09:21 PM
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perki48
Posts: 19
Joined: 4/20/2008
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Don't count on 4 weeks till delivery. I ordered mine (XIED)Thursday and Friday morning got an e-mail saying they were shipped. Just checked with USPS and they are on the way. Fantastic service in my book. I will not be in a big rush to put them on as I want to ride 50 or so miles just before I install them, check temp etc. then install and run same 50 miles and recheck and report results.
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RE: - 5/10/2008 8:47:50 PM
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Mr. Lucky
Posts: 246
Joined: 3/18/2008
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I've been reading this thread on and of for a couple of weeks. I'm only on page 30, but I've got to post my IED impressions before I forget!
First, the service from Steve was superb - ordered last Saturday, arrived here in California on Wednesday! Second, installing these on a Night Train is not the 5 minute procedure I had been reading about. The rear cylinder was a beotch! I started on the right side (of course), followed the sensor lead around the left then around the seat post, and then wound up on the right side again. The connector was secured in a blind recess beneath the oil tank. I think I learned a few new cuss words, but I got it eventually.
I just got my first chance to test ride today. The difference is not astounding, but it's definitely there. I should add that my (stock) '08 has none of the problems that I've heard about here (e.g., decel popping, hunting idle, etc.) - the IEDs just made a good running bike better. The most obvious effect is throttle response. It's especially noticeable on downshifts. I routinely rev-match on downshift to reduce stress on the drivetrain (+ it sounds cool) - the throttle response is so instant now that the downshifts are almost silent. If it weren't for the exhaust note telling me otherwise, I could almost believe I was still in the same gear.
It wasn't particularly warm today, and I have no temp readout device, but I have no doubt that it will provide the cooling safety margin like so many others have reported. All in all, I'm a happy camper!
Now a question. I am a newb when it comes to EFI on bikes. However, I am very familiar with how it operates in my max effort 402cid stroker Corvette. I get the impression from what I've read so far in this thread that everyone considers idle as closed loop and that decel popping is attributed to running lean. True? I'm confused, because that is not so in the vette world. In LS-powered Corvettes, WARM idle is closed loop, but cold idle is open loop (until 136 F). And in vettes, decel popping is caused by running too rich, not lean (unburned fuel lighting off in the exhaust). Is my understanding correct, and if so, what's different in the H-D world?
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RE: RE: - 5/10/2008 9:26:15 PM
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kennyd42
Posts: 38
Joined: 6/7/2005
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Got the XIED's today. 2007 FLHTC stock with Vance and Hines Basic slipons. Very simple install less than 5 minutes. My bike has always ran fine. Never had any low speed surging or backfiring on decell. I took a 30 min test ride and there is a noticable difference, not alot but it is noticable. They definatley helped the lower end hp and cut the heat down. I hit 6th gear at 55 and thats where I really saw the difference. Before the XIED's it was 65 or 70 before I could really use 6th. Going to do some more testing hopefully in warmer temps. So far I am pleased with them. Made a good bike even better.
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RE: RE: - 5/10/2008 10:32:08 PM
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heywood727
Posts: 614
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Edmonton Ab. Canada
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05LowRider:
We're both on the same page. I figured the same thing. I just can't remember where I came across that. Something about turbulance between the air baffle and the lowers. I think it had to do with less air getting to the back cylinder. I'm not 100% sure, but you can try it. I put a CV large on and it made a difference, but lowers make a difference. I use the fabric ones.
Mr. Lucky:
You've basically got it. In the HD world the closed loop is up to 4000 rpm or more than 50% throttle postion when at operating temp. Decel popping can be caused my being too lean for 1, and also can happen when you have a leak in the exhaust system. Sucking air into it. The worst is when you have the exhaust come loose at the head, exhaust gasket installed wrong, cracked exhaust manifold and loose clamp.
There is a portion of the map in the ECM which is called cold start. I'm not sure if it's classified as part of the open loop system or closed. I'm not sure what temp it switches to ,but can be adjusted with a SERT. Basically it's the same as your vette. Starts out rich and leans out as the temps rise.
I do the same. Rev match on the downshift. If it's hot enough, I'll get 6" to 12" flames out of my pipes on my EFI 02 Heritage. The unburnt gas has got to go somewhere...lol. Looks pretty cool at night.
perki48:
If you really want to see a difference, after running them for 50 miles, take them back off and then you'll see.
_____________________________
If I was one... I wouldn''t tell ya! If I wasn''t one... I wouldn''t walk around saying I was!
08 RG BUB 7 TD
08 Buell Blast
02 Heritage
82 SECA Turbo
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RE: RE: - 5/10/2008 10:48:37 PM
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zoopman
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2007
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MAN!--the xied's sound like the ticket! I have a 07 FXD--stage 1 big sucker--2.25 rush--and v&h fuelpack--no download. The bike runs good with hardly no decel popping (Pop every once in awhile). I notice plugs are fairly white but not pitted. I have a couple of questions--
Has anyone used the XIED's with the fuelpack and then tried them without the fuelpack without changing anything else? and what were your observations? I am liking the way my bike is running now but think I should see a hint of color in the plugs. I also am concerned about decel popping and don't want it to return. I think heywood is running his bike with both xied's and fuelpack. Another thing I have considered is if I am able to run fuelpack and XIED's--if fuelpack goes bad the XIED's would be an automatic back-up I think Thanks guys--sorry to be long winded.
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RE: RE: - 5/10/2008 11:04:56 PM
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perki48
Posts: 19
Joined: 4/20/2008
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Heywood
I may try that. My WG runs great now. When new it seemed to knock or ping when at low RPM but with 3000 miles on it things have got much better. I got the XEID just to be safe and maybe give just a little better low end torque.
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RE: RE: - 5/11/2008 12:25:54 AM
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heywood727
Posts: 614
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Edmonton Ab. Canada
Status: offline
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zoopman:
The Fuel Pak is still under the watch of CARB and the EPA. Same with the Stage 1 download. They can't mess with the closed loop portion of the map legally. That's where the IED's/XIED's come in.
I did run the IED's with the Stage 1 down load and hi-flow a/c. It ran great, but I ran into a bit of trouble with my front cylinder heat shield. HD doesn't have a map for the 08's with True duels. They don't have them in their line up, so they haven't got the right map for my set up. At first cruiser and rider figured it could have been a bad chrome job. Once my new heat shield came it, I took off the old one and I could see the burn on the inside of the shield.
The Bub 7's are a lot bigger as well. This could have had a lot to do with it as well. They start at 1 7/8's and step up near the tranny and the step up again at the mufflers. Most start at 1 3/4 and stay the same untill if gets to the mufflers.
The Fuel Pak takes care of the open portion of the map and the XIED's take care of the closed. If the XIED's had been invented before , I would have most likely been able to do away with the FP. Most people run in the closed map anyway. The FP has little impact there. V&H won't tell you which of the 35 modes does what.
I can give you a break down on what I think and how the bike reacted, but take it with a grain of salt due to my pipes being what they are.
Hi-flow with stage 1..... ran ok. EITMS came on alot after idling for 15/20 mins. Idle was around 1150
+IED's...... Idle came down (1050 rpm), exhaust tone was deeper, Throttle was more responsive. EITMS came on way less. The bike was cooler. Basically it felt like it just got the Stage 1 flash and the difference felt like when I flashed the 02 to a stage 1. Big difference over stock.
V&H FP w/o IED's.... ran better than stock but I knew something was missing. Throttle wasn't as responsive during normal riding. Idle was up around 1150. Pulled pretty good when I jumped on it than with just the Stage 1 flash. The butt dyno was happy. Highway roll on was better from 65 mph to 100mph in 6th. There is a bit of a drop when your coming to a stop. Almost like it runs out of fuel near Idle at a full stop. I've been told this is normal as the FP is handing the fuel managment back to the ECM at this point.
FP with IED's........ Really Happy. Held my own against buddies 103".
FP with XIED's........ wow.... Idle is at 1000/1050. Smooth , responsive, I really notice the pull when I switch gears and roll on the Throttle a bit around 3000 rpm. ( I'll do this at times so I don't blast people walking their dogs, cops around, or kids walking on the sidewalk near the bike. The pipes do have that big of a bark)
XIED's w/o FP.... I can't comment on that yet.
If the XIED's were around, I have every confindence that I could have gone without the FP and let the XIED's take care of the closed loop and the stage 1 flash look after the open part.. May have saved a heat shield.
If the fuel pak goes bad, I'm not sure the bike will run? If you loose contact with the 02 sensors, I've been told the bike will fail safe to the open loop part of the map. It's be rich as hell, buck like the choke is on. It won't leave you stranded.
_____________________________
If I was one... I wouldn''t tell ya! If I wasn''t one... I wouldn''t walk around saying I was!
08 RG BUB 7 TD
08 Buell Blast
02 Heritage
82 SECA Turbo
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RE: RE:IED'S - 5/11/2008 4:37:50 AM
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mickey4510
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline
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Hi guys,
I posted a while back saying my brother was going to put ied's on his 08 Roadking, he lives in Ireland where the temps only get to about mid 20's. Anyway he put them on and loves them, the bike runs much better esp. in 6th gear and the throttle response is better, he is going to Europe in June where it will be warmer and can't wait to see the benefits then. The question I have is,the bike is due its 1000ml service and he wants to know if it would be ok to leave the rear ied on and just take the front one off as he does'nt want the dealer to know they are on,he thinks they won't see the rear one. Would it do any harm to leave one on and one off? Thanks again for your help guys.
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RE: RE:IED'S - 5/11/2008 5:17:33 AM
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dropone
Posts: 126
Joined: 9/15/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mickey4510
Hi guys,
I posted a while back saying my brother was going to put ied's on his 08 Roadking, he lives in Ireland where the temps only get to about mid 20's. Anyway he put them on and loves them, the bike runs much better esp. in 6th gear and the throttle response is better, he is going to Europe in June where it will be warmer and can't wait to see the benefits then. The question I have is,the bike is due its 1000ml service and he wants to know if it would be ok to leave the rear ied on and just take the front one off as he does'nt want the dealer to know they are on,he thinks they won't see the rear one. Would it do any harm to leave one on and one off? Thanks again for your help guys.
I would take them off.
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